Snape's Revenge on Voldemort (His DE past)

[Brenda M.]

No: HPFGUIDX 111198

>>> Kneasy wrote:
> Part of it is DD being devious (again). He openly admits that he's
> dumping Harry on the Dursleys because he's afraid of what would
> happen if Harry were to grow up basking in the admiration of the WW.
> He's quite happy for Harry to suffer in Privet Drive
> so long as Harry isn't 'spoiled'. <<<

Brenda now:

I agree with pretty much everything else you said, except for "DD 
being devious". To me, leaving Harry with the Dursley to prevent fame-
contamination was a very prudent guidance. He's looking at the long-
term development of Harry as a whole. Become a person before anything 
else. Yes, the 10 years of loveless life is very cruel and fatal to a 
growing child indeed, but IMO Dumbledore believed Harry would be 
strong enough to fight it.

Can you imagine a cocky little Boy-Who-Lived admired by the whole 
wizarding society ever since he was 1? He would be the most arrogant 
self-absorbed piece of shit! And you know what the results are 
for 'those' -- they'd be divorced 3 times before entering 30's.

And there was that Lily's blood protection reason.
IMHO Dumbledore did a (undesired) favor to Harry.


>>> Kneasy: He needs an 'enemy' - someone to put him
> on his mettle but who will cause him no real harm. An equivalent to 
> Vernon Dursley - which when you think about it is just what
> Snape is. A biased, unfair, rude bully.
> DD underlines this by referring to the old animus between James
> and Snape. This is something that Harry can understand, it makes
> sense - at least to an 11 year old who never knew his father. <<<

Brenda:

So following your logic, Snape is keeping up with the "I Hate 
James... Harry I mean" front to everyone except DD? Including 
Hogwarts' staffs (except for perhaps McGonagall and Filch?) and 
students? Because it was Quirrell who tells Harry first, and DD just 
admits it.

Just curious ;)


>>> Kneasy: As a bonus Snape, while apparently trying to
> 'catch Potter out' is in a very good position to keep a watchful 
> eye on him. All too frequently when Harry is out and about
> when he shouldn't be, when there are dodgy people about,
> so is Snape. He's DD's first line of defence for Harry.

Brenda:

The reason I believe Snape 'dislikes' Harry but not 
necessarily 'hates', is that he shows far too much interest in Harry. 
If you truly hate someone, you'll become indifferent and apathetic, 
not keen. I think PoA movie showed it well, in the Great Hall on 
Halloween night, when Snape asked DD "What should we tell Potter?" He 
sounded like he cares!!!! [now running away from the Elves for movie 
discussion]


>>> Kneasy: I don't claim that he likes Harry,
> more that he is exaggerating his dislike. Like all successful agents
> Snape is a consumate actor. He probably sits iin his dungeon duplex
> giggling to himself thinking up new ways to get under Harry's skin.

Brenda:

LOL, Snape giggling? That's an image I've never been able to conjure 
up ;)

Snape is a consumate actor with many motives:
- to protect his cover as DE by pleasing Malfoy & co.
- to bring the 'celebrity' Harry down to earth (in his eyes anyways)
- to let Neville realize that he is important!


> Every book or so Sevvy *demands* that Harry be expelled. Who does
> he demand this of? DD. Knowing that DD will do nothing. It's all
> for show. Note that when DD isn't around (during the reign of Dear
> Dolly) the one thing Snape does not do is to demand that "Potter be 
> expelled." Because now he probably would be. [snip]
> There is even a suspicion that Dolly did not get real Veritaserum 
to slip into Harry's drink. [snip]
> Not like "DD & Snape - The Best Double-act in the WW."

You're getting another round of laughter for Umbridge Dolly the 
Sheep. Hehehehe.

I never thought about that, but it's very true. Although I viewed his 
demand for Harry's expulsion as a judgment on DD's favoritism towards 
Harry. ('He broke enough rules to be expelled! Punish him!')

But Snape is in the same ship (= boat, not relationship) as DD, so he 
wouldn't collaborate with Umbridge by any means. Even if that means 
he could actually see Harry getting expelled. Lol. I personally think 
JKR was trying very hard to convince the readers that Snape is indeed 
among the good guys now, and will save Harry to great length.


>>> Kneasy: ... the marital status of some of the Hogwarts teaching 
staff will be revealed later. This leads one to suspect that such
information is plot-sensitive. [snip]
> But Snape now, that has legs.
> Snape loses wife and child because of a Voldy atrocity.
> Snape, the Black Widower, full of poisonous hate.
> I like it. 

Brenda:

While this theory is good, I must ask you -- then why do you think 
Voldemort trusts Snape? I'm basing this on the assumption that Snape 
has returned to his DE regime and VM doesn't suspect him as traitor - 
yet. Otherwise Snape would have gotten a blast of more scrutinizing 
Legilimens and far greater torture. Or hire another potion maker to 
brew the strongest Veritaserum, ensuring Snape hadn't taken the anti-
truth potion. Pick your favorite, but I honestly think if DEs had 
reasons to suspect Snape, his cover would have been discovered by now.

SO, assuming Snape is still safe and sound, why would Voldemort trust 
Snape if he had killed his family? Isn't that kind of dumb?

Unless you think Voldy didn't realize Snape was closely related to 
his victims. But would't you first run a background check before 
taking him under? Voldy had Ministry officials in his DE group, it 
would be certainly handy and useful to check.


> Basically DD is in the business of forging Weapon!Harry. He has a
> war to win. Much more is at stake than bruised feelings on Harrys
> part; much more is at stake than just Harry. If it came to the 
crunch
> would DD sacrifice the whole of wizarding society to save Harry?
> No. Harry is the means to save that society, he is not the 
alternative to it.

Absolutely. There are things worth dying for, and for prepared minds, 
death is nothing but a great next advanture. ;)

>>> Kneasy before: And if DD answered differently he is the wrong 
person to be leading the fight.
> Harry is expendable *so long as they win*. In fact, everyone is 
expendable so long as Voldy is defeated - even DD.
>>> Then Alla: I think that if Dumbledore decided in advance that 
> Harry is expendable or anybody is expendable as long as they win,
> he will be the wrong person to lead the fight.

Brenda:

Well if you think about it, war is a lose-lose situation. You become 
a victim either as part of Voldy's Expansion Project OR putting a 
stop to the project. If the whole society is crumbling because of it, 
and you have the power (or hold the key) in destroying the evil, why 
not use it. It will be the most logical and right move to make.

This is why I have no problem with DD using Harry as the 'Weapon' -- 
the psychopath is after Harry anyway. He wants to kill Harry more 
than anything! So why not take the advantage of it?


>>> As to the final scenes, well, I've postulated that Snape will get 
rubbed out before the end - probably saving Harry's skin after some 
foolish but hardly untypical act of stupidity. I just hope that he 
sees his revenge as inevitable by that time. I can't imagine him 
living on, becoming an old curmudgeon, grumping about Hogwarts.
> 
> But as he lies breathing his last, as Harry leans over him his last 
words, spoken with a sneer, will be "Get on with it Potter. Do 
something right for once." <<<

HAHAHAHHA. You 'forgot' to add this part:

Then he travels to the next advanture to see James and Sirius. Sevvy 
tells him, "You saved my life, I saved your son's life. Now we're 
even." And the eternity of hexing each other begins all over again!!! 
<giggles>


Brenda