Snape's DE past

[cubfanbudwoman]

No: HPFGUIDX 111300

totorivers [responding to Potioncat]: 
> I also wonder where you took the basis for calling Sevvie 
> intelligent or anything like that. Sevvie is broken, he wanted to 
> be the best but couldn't. He isn't some deep character, we can see 
> through the books that when it comes to it, he is unable to make 
> the right decision when it comes to Harry being right about 
> something, nor about Sirius and so on. From cannon, James is known 
> to not only bother Sevvie but loads of Slytherin: there is no 
> rivalry in James part, except he is said to hate the dark arts. He 
> is also *helped* along the way by Sirius, who hates Snape for being 
> what he could have been...

SSSusan:
I couldn't disagree with this more.  Snape isn't a deep character?  
May I ask where you get that from canon?  And Potioncat gets that 
Snape's intelligent from canon the same way many others have: he's a 
potions *master*; he can successfully brew the Wolfsbane Potion; he 
clearly knows the intricacies of his subject matter extremely well.

I must have missed the bit where canon showed us James 
bothered "loads" of Slytherins.  I recall hearing that Snape was part 
of a "gang of Slytherins" but I don't recall hearing that James 
pestered loads of Slytherins.  Can you show me where I missed this?

I also don't understand what you mean about Sirius hating Snape "for 
being what he could have been".  Does the 'he' in that sentence refer 
to Sirius or to Snape?  If Sirius, I really don't get it....


Siriusly Snapey Susan (earlier):
> > Kneasy has stated many times his belief that Snape's motivation 
> > is NOT a belief in good over evil, nor anything, really, besides 
> > his own personal agenda, likely a desire for personal revenge. I 
> > don't go quite that far. I think DD *wouldn't* trust Snape if 
> > that's all there were to it...and I don't think DD is unable to 
> > judge Snape's true motivations. I think DD knows pretty much the 
> > full story, whatever it is.
> > 
> > SO WHAT IS IT?!? 
 
totorivers replied: 
> Ok, that's just an hunch, and one most of you won't like: Maybe 
> Severus realised that in Voldemort's world, only Voldemort had any 
> power, and that the others were just crucio recipients. Or maybe 
> Snape realised he would just stay an underdog in the DE, and 
> couldn't accept it. That goes well with his temperament: no 
> epiphany, just the realisation that being a DE, even if he does 
> something that makes him number two, won't make him more powerful 
> or anything, for the simple reason Voldemort allows no one exept 
> himself to have power.
> 
> And as for DD trusting him as a spy....I don't think DD does. I 
> don't even think DD cares for Severus as a spy, he just doesn't 
> want Severus to kill people for fun, and using him that way can be 
> a way to keep a leash on Snape.


SSSusan:
I don't have an objection per se with the possibility you've set out 
in the first paragraph here--that there was no epiphany but that 
Snape figured out he'd never gain power while w/ Voldy and didn't 
care for that fact--but I don't see how that translates into DD 
**accepting Snape back**.  If it is all just about Snape going w/ the 
person with whom he thought he'd gain most power, then why work with 
DD?  DD holds him in check; DD's not into gaining power for power's 
sake.  Wouldn't this frustrate Snape, too, and tempt him to either go 
back to Voldy or set out on his own?

More importantly, for me, is this:  "I trust Severus Snape."  DD says 
this more than once.  Note it's not said as, "I trust Severus Snape 
*as a spy*" or "I trust Severus Snape, but not enough to let him be a 
spy," but simply "I trust Severus Snape."  Would DD trust him so 
implicitly if he were just a power-hungry, switch-sides-willy-nilly 
kind of guy?

I disagree wholeheartedly with your belief that DD doesn't care about 
Snape and just doesn't want him to kill people for fun.  I don't 
think DD is stupid enough to believe that just having Snape as a 
member of the Hogwarts staff would be effective in stopping him--or 
anyone--if he was still inclined to engage in such activities.  

Why does DD give him that important task at the end of GoF?  Why has 
Snape been given important Order business in OotP?  Why did DD 
entrust Snape w/ Occlumency lessons?  Because he trusts Severus 
Snape!  And in my opinion, he would not trust him if he believed it 
was all about power for Snape.  Nor would he ask him to complete such 
important tasks if he was merely trying to keep him on a short leash. 
[Occlumency turned into a failure, but not because DD didn't trust 
Snape, but because *in* his trust, he forgot about a weakness in 
Severus.]

I would never buy that DD is too stupid to see through a "Snape 
front" such as this nor that he would allow Snape to stick around if 
he didn't truly believe he had changed.  No, I think he is giving him 
a safe haven at Hogwarts *and* trusting him to keep his word 
[whatever it was!] and his loyalty to DD/against Voldy.

Siriusly Snapey Susan