Snape's DE past

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 111485

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "arrowsmithbt" 
<arrowsmithbt at b...> wrote:
> Perhaps we are misinterpreting the situation with all this guff 
about
> confusing Harry with James - after all there is minimal canon 
> evidence for this.
> 
> Perhaps he's confusing him with someone else entirely - Voldemort.
> There is canon evidence that Harry has been on the receiving end of
> Voldy's powers and there is heavy speculation that there may be
> even more to it than that. As an ex-DE who shows extreme reactions
> to just the mention of Voldy's name Snape would be hyper-sensitive
> to any Voldy connection. As an Occlumens/Legilimens perhaps Snape
> sees more of Harry's mind than we give him credit for.
>


Alla:


I don't follow you, sorry. I can buy that Snape is hypersensitive to 
any signs of Voldy. And that is why he threw Harry out of the room 
and never resumed Occlumency lessons?

If Snape indeed saw some danger in Harry mind, would not he have 
stopped the lessons right in the beginning?
 
>

Kneasy:
> Those who tend to castigate Snape for his attitude generally regard
> Harry  as a somewhat stubborn, slightly rash, adventurous youth.
> Impetuous but very definitely on the side of angels. Not 
necessarily so. 
> They ignore the fact that he could turn into something much, much 
> worse. He could be Voldy Mk II. Doesn't the Prophecy say "..his 
equal.."?
> Nothing in there about being his opposite, or is my copy of OoP 
faulty?
 
> This is what DD fears could happen, too. The "..in essence 
divided.."
> bit. The transplant into Harry has not grown and flourished - yet.
> There is still time for it to do so. Harry's personality shows 
signs of
> change; he's more or less permanently angry, even with friends that
> wish him nothing but good; he acts as if his wishes over-ride all 
others,
> even to the extent of ignoring clear instructions from DD; he's 
deliberately
> uncooperative - and anti-Snape to the point of obsession. 
> 
> His anti-Snape stance can be explained, if you're willing to make 
enough 
> excuses (though it shows him to be an ungrateful little snot after 
Snape 
> saved him from injury or worse in PS/SS), but his behaviour 
generally 
> would probably meet with the full approval of Tom Riddle. All 
through 
> OoP he acted like a nasty little tyke getting ready to blossom 
into a 
> complete shit.
> 
> Or I may be doing him an injustice - perhaps it's the Voldy in him 
that's 
> obsessively anti-Snape. Voldy does have reason to be, what with 
Sevvy 
> getting his little chums banged up in chokey.



Alla:

I am very very confused. What exactly the pretty much a given fact 
that Harry and Voldemort share strong connection has to do with 
Snape's idiotic behaviour?

I am not going to go into how Harry acted in OOP, because you pretty 
much know my stance on it ( I wonder why Harry did not blew up much, 
much earlier in the series)

Are you saying that even if Harry did not look into pensieve  Snape 
would throw him out anyway, because Snape was scared of Voldemort?


Dumbledore gave Snape a job to do. Snape blew the said task 
magnificently, IMO. Are you saying that that was supposed to happen 
from the beginning?


Are we by any chance coming back to "Dumbledore and Snape planned 
all this"? Because if yes, I think it was Dzeytoun who made a very 
good point once. Does Dumbledore's behaviour in the battle at MOM 
sounds to you as someone, who was confident in what  he was doing?


He sounded and acted extremely SCARED for Harry TO ME at least, not 
as someone who methodically planned for the possession to happen.

Kneasy:

> Harry has not yet proved that he is 'good'. 
> Oh, yes, he's battled with Voldy, but that's personal, between the 
two of
> them, and Harry has been purely on the defensive anyway. He's the 
one
> that's been attacked - and he hates Voldy for killing his parents. 
Entirely
> understandable, but just the fact of being an orphan does not make 
you 
> pure - Tom was one too. 
> 
> Harry is in the 'good' corner by default - he's had little or no 
choice in the
> matter.
.


Alla:

No, he did not prove that he is good yet? How is it personal rushing 
into Chamber to save Ginny? How is it personal to additionally 
endanger himself and bringing Cedric's dead body back?


Harry may have started being on a good side by default, but he 
proved that he is on a good side by choice by now, IMO.


Kneasy:

> > Maybe Snape can see what Harry could turn into if he did have a 
free
> choice and that is what he's reacting to.


Alla:

Oh, maybe Snape is reacting exactly to what text says he is reacting.

""So," said Snape, gripping Harry's arm so tightly Harry's hand was 
starting to feel numb. "So... beein enjoying yourself, Potter?"
"N-no..."said Harry, trying to free his arm.
It was scary: Snape's lips were shaking, his face was white, his 
teeth were bared.
"Amusing man, your father, wasn't he?" said Snape, shaking Harry so 
hard that his glasses slipped down his nose.
"I --- didn't----"
Snape threw Harry from him with all his might. Harry fell hard onto 
the dungeon floor" "- OOP, p.649, paperback.


Kneasy, I strongly believe that even in these series sometimes a 
cigar is just a cigar and conspiracies don't lurk around every 
corner of "potterverse", IMO.

Does Snape sound to you as a man in control in this scene?