Harry... Tsk Tsk (Re: Snape's DE past)

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 111558

> Brenda happily butting in:
> 
> YES! Absolutely. Just how many times in the book does it say that 
> Harry chooses not to practice Occlumency? I lost counts after the 
> following chapter. If one needs the canon proof of this, 
koinonia02 
> has composed a post full of references in Message #100571.
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/100571.




Alla:


Alla waves to Brenda  and  decides to have a little disagree
ment with her. :o)
First of all, Harry did not practice nearly as much as he could, I 
without doubt concede that point.


Brenda:

snip.

> I have seen other posters defending Harry by saying that Harry 
didn't 
> know Voldemort could send him false visions and lure Harry out. 
That 
> all the visions/dreams he had so far were all true. BUT he was 
> informed by Snape that there IS a possibility that Voldemort will 
use 
> the connection to "try and make [Harry] do things". Is it only me, 
or 
> does that imply the scnerio where Harry does things because 
Voldemort 
> tried and made him?



Alla:


I was certainly among those posters. I absolutely do NOT read "try 
and make do things" as "sending false visions". I read it as more 
like trying to put you under Imperium curse. You know, forcing you 
do stuff, but your reading is certainly just as valid as mine. I 
don't think Harry was informed nearly enough the level he should be 
informed, I don't think Dumbledore gave him the right teacher to 
practice Occlumency with, la la la (you know the gist :o))

I think teacher, whom Harry would trust made a HUGE difference in 
such important matter

You know, I just recently got over being upset with Dumbledore and 
here you go. :)
Your post reminded me how much of an idiot I consider Dumbledore to 
be since he ever thought in the first place that that could work 
EVER.

But at least I think that Dumbledore wanted to protect Harry. Such 
decision turned out to be erroneous one, IMO.





Brenda: 
> As for those who point out that the Occlumency lessons leaving 
Harry 
> vulnerable, have you conveniently forgotten what Hermione had to 
say 
> about this?
> 
> " 'Maybe it's a bit like illness,' said Hermoine, looking 
concerned 
> when Harry confided in her and Ron. 'A fever or something. It has 
to 
> get worse before it gets better.' " [OoP, 489. UK]
> 
> Don't know about you, but that makes perfect sense to me. Physical 
> immune system works the same way, after all.



Alla:


Are you refering to the fact that Harry felt weakened after the 
lessons? I don't know. I don't consider direct attack of Harry's 
mind to be the best teaching method. You know, Snape, what about 
starting VERY slowly with the beginner student, not from knocking 
him out almost? But, we don't know how the Occlumency supposed to be 
taught, that I happily concede.


Regardless, I would be cautious of taking Hermione's words for 
granted, always. You know, we have SPEW as an example that she does 
not always do things the right way.

I think she was right waaay too many times in OOP and JKR is setting 
her for a fall in the next one.


 
Brenda:
>
>  I believe learning the prophecy 
> should have come AFTER Harry had mastered Occlumency, for the 
> following reason:

Alla:

I strongly disagree with this one, of course, but I see your point. 


Brenda:
> 
> While I'm not too sure about whether Occlumency would have helped 
> with Sirius' chance, (Harry-Voldy connection seems to be more than 
> traditional Occlumency-Legilemency to me, Harry was understandably 
> curious about the long corridor...) he should have been more 
careful 
> *judging* the dream logically and act accordingly, instead of 
rashing 
> out and impulsively flying to MoM.
>

Alla:

Can you explain to me how Harry was supposed to see that his dream 
about Sirius is different from his other dreams , specifically from 
the dream about Arthur, which helped to save the man? Specifically, 
how Harry was supposed to figure out that the dream was false?