Snape and Lupin's Character Arcs (was: Lupin's Char Arc)

[lupinlore]

No: HPFGUIDX 119347


--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "pippin_999" <foxmoth at q...> 
wrote:
> 
> 
<SNIP> 

> That is your opinion, Alla. Mine is that Harry's problems with 
> Snape started when  Harry started thinking that evil is a Slytherin 
> trait instead of a human one. If you want to blame somebody for 
> that, you could blame Hagrid. McGonagall wouldn't be any nicer 
> to a student she caught  talking back or making faces at her.  

Oh, I most certainly and emphatically disagree with that one.  
McGonagall would certainly correct such a student, granted, but not 
in the unprofessional and demeaning way used by Snape. Also, Harry 
did not ask to be singled out by Snape in class and ridiculed for not 
knowing something he could not possibly have known.  McGonagall would 
never engage in such behavior
> 
> 
> It is also my opinion that Snape is teaching properly, as properly 
> is defined in the wizarding world, and therefore he has no evil 
> intent. 

Err, what's your point?  Ignorance of the law is no excuse.  Nor is 
the fact that many, maybe even the majority, of the Wizarding World 
would find his methods acceptable.  We are under no obligation 
whatsoever to cut him a break on those grounds.  Now, that probably 
sounds arrogant, judgemental, and self-righteous.  So be it.  But if 
the majority of the Wizarding World holds with Snape, well, the 
majority of the Wizarding World is twisted and corrupt in this 
context.  Sorry.  At one time the vast majority of U.S. Southerners 
believed slavery was perfectly all right.  In fact, at one point the 
vast majority of both Americans and English felt that slavery was 
perfectly all right.  Does that mean that early abolitionists were 
supposed to cut slave traders and slave holders a break?


What he is doing is wrong and oppressive by our 
> standards, but so was Sirius's treatment of Kreacher. Did Sirius 
> need to be redeemed for that? I don't think so.

I disagree with you there.  I think Sirius did need to be redeemed 
for his treatment of Kreacher.  Although, given that Kreacher 
represented very real malice (and real threat, as it turned out) his 
sin in this regard is nowhere near as great as Snape's is with regard 
to Harry.

 It would have 
> been wise if Sirius had taken Dumbledore's advice, but he was 
> not obliged to do so. It would be nice if Snape's teaching style 
> were more like Lupin's but  the customs of the wizarding world 
> do not oblige him to make it so.
> 
> If Harry is willing to excuse Sirius for the way he treated 
Kreacher 
> because Sirius was otherwise a valiant warrior for good, he 
> should, *as a grown up*  be able to make the same allowance 
> for Snape. That is where I expect Snape's character arc to go. He 
> will stay in the same place, and Harry will grow to perceive him 
> differently.

Oh dear, I certainly hope not.  That would be, to use a very strong 
word I've used in other contexts, insipid.  Purely my own opinion, of 
course.  As for the comparison between Harry's willingness to excuse 
Sirius and his unwillingness to excuse Snape, I don't agree he 
forgives Sirius because Sirius is a "valiant warrior for good."  He 
forgives Sirius because he loved him.  And as for being a grown up, 
grown ups are under no obligation, as adults or anything else, to 
excuse others for their abuse and mistreatment, even if they are on 
the same side.  It is perfectly possible to cooperate with someone 
for a common goal, even to acknowledge their strengths and 
sacrifices, while still insisting that the other is absolutely in the 
wrong in certain respects and needs to make reparation and/or change.

To use the slavery analogy again, black Americans served valiantly in 
both World Wars.  In so doing, they made common cause with the white 
society that had abused them, and continued to do so, because it was 
necessary to fight a greater evil.  However, they were under no 
obligation to forgive the abuse and mistreatment, and certainly under 
no obligation not to demand redress and change.

> 
> 
<SNIP>
> 
> Pippin:
> Excuse me? Snape was in the right about Harry's father, and has 
> never said anything to him about Harry's mother at all. 

Once again, what's your point?  Snape had no right to bring up the 
subject at all.  Whether he was right about James or not is totally 
immaterial.

Lupinlore