Voldemort's "death" and redemption

[sevenhundredandthirteen]

No: HPFGUIDX 119483


Vivamus wrote:

<<<<I think a "redeemed" Tom Riddle walking around doing good would 
be a 
source
of suffering to Neville Longbottom (and hundreds of others who have 
suffered
similarly at the hands of LV or his followers) *almost* as terrible 
as the
loss of his parents in the first place.>>>>

Kim responded:

<<<<You may be right -- not leaving out Harry of course, if Harry 
survives (and I'm with those who think he will survive) and I do see 
your point that TR/LV still walking around could be a problem for 
some who suffered at his hands. But can you see the character of 
Neville or Harry killing anyone, even LV? Delivering LV over to some 
higher authority to decide on his fate, yes, but Harry and Neville 
directly killing LV themselves? Which suggests this question: Who 
or what would that higher authority be? Then again, why do you 
assume that a "redeemed" Tom Riddle would cause suffering to 
Neville, 
et al.? An "unredeemed" Tom Riddle, yes, but a "redeemed" Tom 
Riddle? Please explain. >>>>

Laurasia replies:

The question is: do people ever fully accept that a leopard can 
change its spots?

Voldemort has done some incredibly nasty things in his life, could 
people affected by these things ever accept that he has repented for 
them. Or would they refuse to believe it possible, and wish eternal 
suffering on him as a way of easing their own suffering? Will the 
knowledge that Voldemort is alive and living out a normal life 
torment them even more? EVEN IF the guy is genuinely redeemed? EVEN 
IF Voldemort is as harmless as a flobberworm? EVEN IF the guy is 
donating them all his families money and doing volunteer work 
cleaning out bed pans at St Mungo's and working on a magical cure
to cancer?

Vivamus:
<<<<I think of it as a complete defeat, such that no rising again 
would be possible. If Harry doesn't kill LV outright, LV will 
nevertheless be
utterly destroyed, so that the WW can relax and know that THAT 
menace, at
least, is gone forever. Anything less and the series isn't over.>>>>

I disagree.
I see three ways to stop Voldemort re-offending: rehabilitation, 
fear of punishment and isolation. If Voldemort is sealed in a jar, 
he can't hurt anyone. If he knows that he will die (his greatest 
fear) he won't do it. If he genuinely believes that hurting
people is wrong, he won't do it. But, like you suggest Vivamus,
most readers predict Voldemort's death. 

Most readers cannot see any way to prevent Voldemort re-offending 
other than his own death. This, IMO, is a reflection of our own real-
world view that `a leopard cannot change its spots' and also
because there are only a few stories in the genre where seriously 
evil people get saved. Vadar, after all, is nothing compared to 
Emperor Palpatine.

JKR has indicated how she feels on the matter by her treatment of 
other similar scenarios. Severus Snape, after all, got his second 
chance. And Sirius was portrayed as wrong  for not giving it to him. 
In every single book we are presented with the idea "Did Snape 
really change his spots?" Usually with Ron saying,
`Where's the proof?' and Hermione replying, `We need
to trust him, Dumbledore does.'

When Voldemort `greets' his Death Eaters in the graveyard he
demands 13 years of repayment before accepting that they no longer 
need punishment for their crimes against their master- something to 
the tune of `I can't give you a second chance until you're
proven beyond absolutely all doubt that you repent against the 
wrongdoings you committed against me.'

Harry, it would seem, would not be ready at the current time to give 
Voldemort a second chance. He can't even give Snape a second
chance, and Snape, as far as Harry knows, hasn't killed anyone,
let alone his parents.

The question also takes into account- what is the best way to repair 
the damage control caused by Voldemort? Do his victims was healing, 
or do they think they can never be fully healed and their only 
justice will be to watch Voldemort suffer even more than they are?

Harry, it would seem, falls into the second category. He tries to 
perform the Cruciatus Curse on Bellatrix Lestrange, after all. He is 
so angry in OotP, IMO, because he is trying to make himself suffer 
for Cedric's death.

I think it would be a profound learning experience for Harry to 
overcome this belief. I think it would truly make Harry stand apart 
from the common folk if he could accept that Voldemort was no longer 
dangerous- instead of `watching in case he falls back into his
old ways' if Harry could actually put some faith in the guy and
didn't ask him to prove that he was "really" good. It is
slightly different to forgiveness. Forgiveness takes into account 
actions past, whilst this takes into account actions future.

At the very least, I think such an understanding must eventually 
some between Harry and Snape. Currently JKR has shown us that we 
should give people second chances (though Harry doesn't yet feel 
that way about Snape nor anyone else) and that the best way to 
repair damage isn't by making other people suffer (although Harry 
still wants people, including himself, to suffer). I expect we will 
see him go on a character journey that leads to his own beliefs 
being consistent with the way they are otherwise presented in the 
story.

I think that if Voldemort is to be truly redeemed then the common 
folk in the wizarding world won't be asked to accept him as 
harmless, only Harry. The reason I believe this is because I see it 
as too difficult a task for JKR to get millions of people to forgive 
a man who has destroyed their lives. Asking one man, Harry, to do 
this is difficult enough. And it would set Harry apart from the 
throngs. He would be a true hero.

Perhaps the rest of the wizarding world would think that Voldemort 
is dead, but Harry would know that he is really just the guy who now 
does volunteer work at St Mungo's. Or, if anyone is out there 
looking for a BANG!, maybe Voldemort is redeemed, put into the bell 
jar, shrunk to being a baby, and then put back in time and lives out 
his life as none other than: Harry Potter! Ta da! 

~<(Laurasia)>~
Who doesn't actually believe that Voldemort will be redeemed. He
is going to DIE!