Voldemort's "death"

[ginnysthe1]

No: HPFGUIDX 119533


> > Kim asked:
> > I too think the idea of a Dementor's soul-eating 
> > kiss sealing Voldemort's fate is a possibility. Do 
> > you think it's possible that LV doesn't even have a
> > soul anymore? <snip>
> 
> Juli replied:
> I was just thinking, can you imagine LV's patronus?
> What could it possibly be? Could he even cast one, I
> mean has he ever been truly happy, not just Jajajaj
> happy but happy happy, like when you see a friend that
> you haven't seen in a ling time, or like when you fall
> in love?

Kim now:
Good question.  No, I can't imagine what LV's patronus would be or 
that he would even have one.  It's been suggested on this list that a 
person's patronus is inspired by their father or protector (in the 
way Harry's patronus is his father's stag animagus), so in that case, 
LV wouldn't have much to base his patronus on.  He'd essentially had 
no father because his father had rejected him and his mother before 
he was even born, and he'd hardly had a mother since she died soon 
after he was born.  Did he have any adult mentors at the orphanage?  
Could he have used Dumbledore as his patronus inspiration once he got 
to Hogwarts?  But there's no indication in canon (is there?) that DD 
ever viewed Tom Riddle as a surrogate son.  Which provokes the 
question, somewhat off-topic (and somehow I think it must have been 
discussed already) -- do you think DD feels partly responsible for 
not intervening in the development of Tom Riddle's evil nature, that 
had he given TR the love and guidance he'd lacked from such an early 
age that TR might not have killed his own father and grandparents or 
gone on to become the mass murderer Lord Voldemort?

Nevertheless I think we can't rule out the possibility that during 
LV's student days (as Tom Riddle) there might have been a class on 
how to cast a patronus charm.  So maybe TR cut that class... ;-)   
But then, patronuses are only needed for fighting off Dementors 
(depression-monsters), right?  In that case, Tom Riddle may have been 
so deeply in despair by the age of 12 or 13 that a Dementor would 
have had no effect on him anyway.  In other words, if despair had 
already won him over, no need for him to fear the "despair monster" 
any longer.  Then again too, what do Dementors do all day besides 
guard Azkaban Prison or come to Hogwarts in search of escapees like 
Sirius Black?  So would the students of TR's day have even needed to 
learn the patronus charm?  Of course, it's not a bad charm to have 
under your belt anyway.

> Now answering to the posts:
> If Harry somehow makes LV possess him, and he's kissed
> by a dementor, wouldn't he also take Harry's soul?
> Besides, LV can't possess Harry because of his
> 'power'. So no I don't believe this is how LV will
> finally die. It can't be in a duel either because we
> already know what happens when their wands fight each
> other (priori incantem), so my guess is it'll be
> something completely different, something we'll never
> seen before.

Kim now:  I agree! 

Juli continued:
> LV not having a soul? How could it be? AFAIK he still
> thinks and makes evil plans and everything, if he
> didn't had a soul at all he would just be a machine,
> just 'surviving' not living in every sense of the
> word, enjoying life and being conscious of it. By the
> way, where is Barty Jr? Is there like an island or
> something for the soul-less?

Kim:
I guess the answer depends on what you think a soul is.  If it's the 
life force, then it seems that a person should die once 
they're "kissed" by a Dementor.  But Barty Jr. didn't die (maybe 
you've read Carol's post in this same thread where she quotes from 
OotP to show that Barty Jr. survived his encounter with a Dementor 
and also gives her thoughts on his circumstances after the 
encounter).  As for LV, perhaps he does still have a soul, but it may 
have become so evil over the course of his life, that it's no longer 
much of a soul nor even redeemable.  LV's soul sure isn't a "force 
for life" anymore like Harry's soul is, IMO.

Or it could be that both parts of what you asked are true:  LV does 
still have a soul, but he's also just a machine, just surviving in 
the most shallow sense, not enjoying life (emphasis on "joy" in the 
word "enjoying"), and definitely not conscious in the sense of being 
awakened to the realities of life.  And since he can't accept life on 
its own terms (i.e. life's joys and sorrows), he has forsaken his own 
soul, in a sense.  There's a really good article on the web that 
touches on the ethic of adaptation vs. the ethic of transcendence and 
I think it's relevant to this discussion (see "Wizards and 
wainscots : generic structures and genre themes in the Harry Potter 
series" by Kerrie Anne Le Lievre at www.findarticles.com)

Just my three cents.

Cheers, Kim