Dumbledore "failing" Harry (was: Adults "failing" Harry (was: Themes in OotP)

[horridporrid03]

No: HPFGUIDX 119955



>>Betsy wrote earlier:
>>And when Dumbledore felt that Harry was of an age to affect the 
Wizarding world, he planned on letting Harry in on things.  But at 
this point in the game, Dumbledore's plan was to keep Harry off the 
board.  So no actions or inactions to worry about.<<
 
> SSSusan:
>"So no actions or inactions to worry about."  If that's the case, 
then I guess I'd say DD really screwed this one up.  That remark 
might have held true for most kids, but hasn't DD figured Harry out 
YET when it comes to this?  "Someone's after the SS?  I'll go stop 
him!"  "Someone's taken Ginny?  I'll go get her!"  I mean, this kid 
is nothing if not "action" when the pressure's on or when he 
perceives something needs to be done.  I think DD should have 
expected Harry to have continued this tendency, esp. after the attack 
on Mr. Weasley and his role in it.  Harry think he needs to DO 
things, and he'll do them on the sly if he thinks he has to.  DD 
should have been aware of that.<

Betsy:
Oh, Dumbledore screwed up, no doubt about it.  The thing is, this 
royal screw up deepened the character of Dumbledore for me.  One of 
the reasons I love OotP because it takes the rather two dimensional 
Puppetmaster!Dumbledore and fleshed him out into a somewhat flawed 
though still wise and knowledgeable man. 

As Potioncat pointed out:
>I think JKR has written very stong adult characters...we all seem to
have strong opinions about them...but she still has to have them
fail in some way. She's done a nice job of creating flaws,
misunderstandings, ill will between characters so that in some
believable way these powerful witches and wizards drop the ball and
Harry has to run with it.<

Betsy:
Yes, Harry has shown time and time again that he will take action 
against Voldemort.  In the very first book he practically had the 
prophecy figured out. "If I get caught before I can get to the Stone, 
well, I'll have to go back to the Dursleys and wait for Voldemort to 
find me there, it's only dying a bit later than I would have, because 
I'm never going over to the Dark Side!" (SS, pg. 270, paperback)  As 
early as that, Harry knew that it was a death struggle between him 
and Voldemort.

But Dumbledore admits at the end of OotP that he still wanted to keep 
Harry safe and out of the battle.  I know it's been popular to 
believe that Dumbledore sanctioned ahead of time all the actions 
Harry's taken against Voldemort over the years, but I theorize that 
Dumbledore was actually against Harry constantly putting his neck on 
the line.  (See message #119865 for a specific example of my thinking 
on this.)

I do agree with you, SSSusan, that Dumbledore made a catastrophic 
miscalculation with how he handled Harry.  And that mistake ended in 
the death of Sirius.  He admits this himself at the end of OotP.  So 
I will be shocked if he backslides in book 6.  What I'm trying to 
show is that the mistake was believable for the character of 
Dumbledore.  I see Dumbledore thinking, "Yes, Harry likes to take 
matters into his own hands, so keep him ignorant of what is going on 
and that will keep him safe.  Watch him, protect him, but don't bring 
him into play."  Of course, he fails to take into account Harry's own 
resourcefulness and Voldemort's ruthlessness.

As HunterGreen says:
>But the darkness is going to touch Harry no matter what. That is a
fact. There is nothing that anyone can do to avoid that.<

Betsy:
But what about the Occlumency lessons? Earlier I wrote:
>>This was another miscalculation of Dumbledore's, though I think a 
more understandable one.  Snape is a teacher, a damn good one as per 
his NEWT successes, and he assigns Snape a teaching job.  Why on 
earth would Dumbledore have to explain to the pupil that he should 
listen to his teacher and take his lesson seriously?<<  

And SSSusan and HunterGreen replied:

> SSSusan:
> Um... because it's SNAPE and HARRY, that's why.  Snape is *not* a 
damn good teacher when it comes to Harry. And if DD isn't aware of 
the animosity between them, then that's shocking.  McGonagall 
certainly is aware of it.  ["Yes, Potter, *Potions*."]
[snip] 
>If it's wartime and you know each General's strengths & weaknesses, 
don't you plan strategy accordingly?<

>HunterGreen:
>Even if he were getting taught occulmency from Lupin (for example)
Harry would need to understand WHY it was so important. Convincing
Harry of its importance without giving anything away is already hard
enough, why have one of Harry's enemies explain it to him? And
there's no way Dumbledore was unaware of Harry's mistrust of Snape.
[snip]
>But it didn't have a chance unless Harry really cared about it, you 
can't FORCE something to care about something, which is what all the 
adults around him were doing ("Harry, you must learn 
occulmency." "Why?" "YOU MUST!!!" -- that doesn't accomplish 
anything).<

Betsy:
In the first place, Snape *does* explain to Harry why the lessons are 
important. "The important point is that the Dark Lord is now aware 
that you are gaining access to his thoughts and feelings.  He has 
also deduced that the process is likely to work in reverse; that is 
to say he might be able to access your thoughts and feelings in 
return --"
"And he might try to make me do things?" asked Harry. [...]
"He might," said Snape..." (OotP, pg 533, US hardback ed.)

And Snape tries, in his own special way, to curb Harry's curiosity on 
the subject of what's in the DoM. On page 591 of OotP hardback, Snape 
specifically tells Harry this it is his, Snape's, job to figure out 
what the Dark Lord is after, and Harry should try and block his 
visions from Voldemort.

Also, Snape was doing rather well at teaching Harry.  In the first 
lesson, Harry threw Snape off with a stinging hex, and in the next 
lesson Harry is able to enter into Snape's memories.  Of course the 
lessons all went to hell in a handbasket when Harry snooped into 
Snape's Pensieve.  But the refusal to continue teaching Harry lands 
firmly on Snape's shoulders.  

I do not fault Dumbledore for thinking that a man in his mid-to late-
thirties, in the middle of a war, should be able to put aside petty 
school-boy squabbles and teach a young boy a skill upon which the 
battle may hang.  Dumbledore has shown time and again that McGonagall 
and Snape are his two right hands at Hogwarts.  He has entrusted 
Harry's care to Snape in the past, and though Snape seems to dislike 
Harry, Snape has done his job.  I don't think it was a stretch for 
Dumbledore to think Snape capable of carrying out this particular 
task.  (Frankly, I think Snape's response to Harry's snooping is a 
bit bizzare.  Not the anger, but the refusal to continue the 
lessons.  If anything was OoC, this was, and I hope to see more on it 
in book 6.) 

But I do think that Harry was so curious about what was in the DoM, 
that only the truth would have satisfied him.  No matter his strength 
in Occlumency, Harry really wanted to know what was behind the door.  
Dumbledore was the only one with the authority to tell him the truth, 
and he put keeping Harry ignorant of his place in the battle ahead of 
everything else.  And because of that mistake, someone died.

>SSSusan:
>And DD... well, the more I think about this, the more I guess I 
really do think he goofed up.<

I agree with you completely.  Dumbledore really, really messed up.  
But not in an out-of-character way, IMO.  And his mistake provided 
the catalyst for a really good story and some major character 
unfoldment and/or growth.  For the sake of Harry, I wish Dumbledore 
had not made the choices he made.  For the sake of the story...  
well, it made a sad kind of sense to me, and threw an interesting 
light on past events.  Bring on Book 6, I say!

--Betsy
PS  I'm going to be away from computers for about a week, so if I 
don't respond to folks, I'm not sulking, I'm just gone!