Yet another defense of Snape's Occlumency lessons (long)

[totorivers]

No: HPFGUIDX 120045


dungrollin:
> 
> I find Harry's insistence on dwelling on his anger peculiar. 
> Fear is something I find much more difficult to control than anger
> – possibly because external influences are the cause of the
> feeling, but anger (although also dependent on external influences) 
> is more dependent upon my mood, and attitude, and I can master 
> that.  In this, Harry has reactions opposite to mine, (he easily 
> overcomes his fear, but not his anger) so perhaps that's why I
> have little sympathy for his difficulties.  It would be interesting 
> if the people who are on his side in this debate react similarly to 
> him – have difficulty getting over anger, but less difficulty 
> getting over fear.

toto:
  Hum, I must say I too have lots of problem getting past my fears, 
but I can empathise with Harry: he had trouble forcing himself to do 
something important and get past his dislike of a teacher. I know for 
myself that I had period where I couldn't open a book and work at 
home simply because my mother had said a sentence that kept me on 
edge: I knew I should, but I just had lot of trouble doing it. I have 
seen here a comparison between the patronus lesson and the occlumency 
ones. The patronus lesson were done by a teacher that tried and 
understood Harry, Harry managed to do it, and saved Sirius' life. The 
occlumency were done by someone insulting him and barking at him, he 
couldn't do it, he killed Sirius. There is some kind of pattern there, 
I think.

dungrollin:
> I'm not sure how posters can argue that Snape hasn't told
> Harry how to practise.  Is it that bit in the first lesson, where 
> Harry says `you're not telling me how'?  Because immediately after 
> that Snape *does* explain about ridding one's mind of emotion.

toto:
  But how? How does one clear his mind? By focalising on an image as 
so many do it, by repeating a mantra as some occidental people do and 
like it is done in bjh's adaptation? I must confess that if someone 
told me to clear my mind and get past my anger, I would have no way 
to do it. I think Harry should have had easier exercise first, and 
then learnt to clear his mind. Snape was faultive there, I think.

dungrollin:
> The basic problem was one of trust, and Harry's lack of it in 
> others.  Phineas Nigellus summed it up nicely: "Have you never 
> paused, while feeling hard-done-by, to note that following 
> Dumbeldore's orders has never yet led you into harm?"  Of course 
> mistakes were made, but the biggie was that Harry should 
> have known the full prophecy at the end of GoF, then he'd have
> known that Voldy might try to lure him to the DoM.  That would have 
> prevented a lot of problems.  

toto:
  I happen to agree there. Harry got on my nerves in the book for not 
listening to others. He *could* have told Hermione that he didn't get 
occlumency, and she would have found a book and given him lesson to 
help him. I can empathise there too though, as I have done some 
stupid things when I couldn't manage to do something, and Harry has 
never learnt yet to go for help when he needs it (the occurence with 
Lupin had Lupin gently probing, not Harry delivering himself freely). 
But still, he was pretty stupid there, and he has done something I 
have never done: blaming adult when he could simply find a solution 
by himself. But as you said, Harry has a big baggage problem from his 
abuse by the Dursleys, and it won't be easy to get past that.

Dungrollin:
> So don't blame it all on Snape, particularly when DD and Harry
> have both accepted the blame for their various mistakes.


Toto: I don't blame it all on Snape. As I have said, it should have 
been pretty obvious that both Snape and Harry wouldn't be able to 
ignore their emotional baggage. Thus, the majority of the blame comes 
to DD who should never have put the lessons in the hand of Snape. :) 
But I would say that Snape, as an adult and a teacher, should know 
that barking at a child and not explaining in detail (to say "clear 
your mind and empty your emtion" without telling how to do it is to 
lack in detail) is not the right way to teach something, especially to 
a teenager who hates you already. Snape knows this. He is the adult. 
He should have been the one to first make an effort. Of course, he 
did make an effort I guess, but not enough to give a chance to Harry.

Toto, who knows how it is to feel unable to work on something because 
of a teacher, and who needs some detail to be able to do things 
otherwordly like clearing his mind.