You're in the Army, now. wasFalse Alarm? Was:Re: Adults "failing" Harry (in tP)

[nkafkafi]

No: HPFGUIDX 120154


> Del replies :
> About that question above : it does seem clear after reading your post
> that Sirius knew about the Prophecy by the time of the DoM battle.
> However :
> 
> 1. He could have been told about it very recently. Maybe someone else
> in the Order knew about it, and when the Order was contacted and told
> about Harry being gone and missing, maybe that someone explained what
> was in the DoM.
> 
> 2. Sirius might have known for a very long time. If the Potters knew,
> then James might have told his very best friend. But DD might have
> asked him not to tell anyone else.
>

Neri:
Still, during the talk in 12GP in the beginning of the year, we have:

* * * *
"It's not down to you to decide what's good for Harry!" said Mrs
Weasley sharply. The expression on her normally kind face looked
dangerous. "You haven't forgotten what Dumbledore said, I suppose?"
"Which bit?" Sirius asked politely, but with the air of a man readying
himself for a fight.
"The bit about not telling Harry more than he needs to know," said Mrs
Weasley, placing a heavy emphasis on the last three words.
* * * *
 
So DD told then not to tell Harry specifically (not generally "the
kids"), and Sirius, Molly and later Arthur and Lupin obviously know
what it is. So what is it? Merely the knowledge that LV wants
something in the DoM? That knowledge by itself doesn't endanger Harry.
And we have more in the end of this same talk:

 * * * *
"What's he after apart from followers?" Harry asked swiftly. He
thought he saw Sirius and Lupin exchange the most fleeting of looks
before Sirius answered.
 "Stuff he can only get by stealth."
When Harry continued to look puzzled, Sirius said, "Like a weapon.
Something he didn't have last time."
"When he was powerful before?"
 "Yes."
 "Like what kind of weapon?" said Harry. "Something worse than the
Avada Kedavra — ?"
 " That's enough!"
 Mrs Weasley spoke from the shadows beside the door. Harry hadn't
noticed her return from taking Ginny upstairs. Her arms were crossed
and she looked furious.
"I want you in bed, now. All of you," she added, looking around at
Fred, George, Ron and Hermione.
 "You can't boss us — " Fred began.
 "Watch me," snarled Mrs Weasley. She was trembling slightly as she
looked at Sirius. "You've given Harry plenty of information. Any more
and you might just as well induct him into the Order straightaway."
* * * *

So Sirius and Lupin know that it is something LV didn't have last
time, and they know more than that, which is the part that Molly stops
them from telling, and she implies that anybody who is inducted into
the Order knows this part. And why is it Molly, of all the Order
members, who objects here so emotionally? She's not the only one who
cares about security breaches, but she is the one who cares about
Harry's innocence.
 

> Del replies :
> I just wish we knew *for sure*! If I've learned one thing about the HP
> books, it's not to assume what is not clearly written, so I'm feeling
> a bit uncomfortable assuming that all the Order members knew about the
> Prophecy and yet none of them told Harry anything about it.
>

Neri:
There are all kinds of reasons why some things are not clearly
written. Like JKR not telling us in the end of GoF that Harry broke
into the DADA office and got the Marauder's Map back. It was just too
much to put into the short ending after the climax, and JKR thought it
would be obvious. It could be the same thing here. There's just not
enough emotional room in the ending of OotP for an Order member to
explain that they knew all along.

> Del replies :
> Once again, this makes a lot of sense. But the problem is : we haven't
> been told what reason DD gave to the Order for implementing the
> Occlumency lessons. It might have been a very compelling reason that
> had nothing to do with the Prophecy, like presenting the dangers a
> possessed!Harry could represent for the Order as a whole, or even
> simply the fix the Order could be in if LV accessed Harry's memories
> of 12GP and the Order.

Neri:
But Harry already knew about these reasons when talking to Sirius and
Lupin in Umbridge's fire, so why didn't they tell him "you must learn
Occlumency to guard your mind from Voldemort!" or "you must learn
Occlumency to guard the Order's secrets from Voldemort!" Instead they
just tell him "you must learn Occlumency because nothing is more
important than that! Do you understand me? Nothing!" Why be so vague
when they want to pass such a critical message? It really does make
them sound like hysterical overprotective grownups.

As I say, it is not 100% certain, but I'd say it is at least 95%
certain that they know that there's a prophecy in the DoM, that only
Harry and Voldy can retrieve it, and that it says only Harry can
vanquish Voldy. It is also obvious DD told them very specifically not
to tell Harry. And it would be very strange if Sirius, Lupin, Arthur
and Molly know this, but Snape doesn't.

Neri