One last try (re: Parenting Harry (was: Re: I don't like him much))

[eloise_herisson]

No: HPFGUIDX 120213


> Alla:
> 
> Let me try one more time again, because I think we really are 
talking 
> past each other.

Eloise:
Definitely. <g> 

<snip>

> But in the second part of your quote I snipped, you compare what 
> Snape does (being the rule upholder) with PARENTING and that I 
really 
> disagree with.

Eloise:
I can understand that. If you think that being a parent necessarily 
involves warmth. Of course I was making the specific point that this 
is just one of the roles within that of parent. And yes, Snape goes 
way over the top in pursuit of it and is completely ineffective as a 
result, because Harry will naturally rebel (as, dare I say, children 
do against parents) and do whatever it is with perhaps more gusto 
than if it weren't forbidden in the first place.


> I cannot compare what Snape does with being a parent, because 
parent 
> does NOT in my opinion and experience upholds the rules the way 
Snape 
> does. Parent can NOT by my definition be a sadist towards a 
child,   
> even if the child breaks the rules.

Eloise:
So a parent who is a bad parent, who is harsh or sadistic towards 
their child is not, by definition, a parent? There are a lot of bad 
parents around who treat their offspring far worse than Snape treats 
Harry. There are a lot of people who don't understand how to relate 
to children and go about things the wrong way, counter-productive 
ways, or simply ways which our particular society at this particular 
time disapproves of. Some cultures both now and particularly in the 
past tolerate or even encourage very different parenting practices 
from those we think ideal and the WW *is* a bit of another country 
where things are done differently, I feel.* 

I've argued this one before over something else, I think, but it does 
seem to be a much harsher world than ours. It's a world where in 
living memory school punishments have included being hung from the 
ceiling in chains and where in OoP the MoM again gives permission for 
the whipping of pupils. 

I'm not condoning, just saying that in the WW, I don't think Snape 
would be considered as sadistic as he would appear in our society 
(IIRC the worst that Ron ever says is that he's a git) and given the 
concern for Harry's welfare which *sometimes* seems to be present 
(although expressed in such a way that Harry wouldn't notice it) I'm 
prepared to think that Snape thinks he's doing the right thing, 
particularly in compensating for what he sees as Dumbledore's over-
indulgence. And as you quoted me saying,

> >although I 
> > defined this as a parenting role, it doesn't then necessitate 
that 
> > the role will be performed well.)


Anyhow, it's a bit semantic really.

My hypothesis was that Harry doesn't have a parent, therefore the 
parenting roles are split between various people, not necessarily 
done well, but done to some extent.

Perhaps I'm wrong, then, and Harry isn't being parented at all.

~Eloise

* this site gives an interesting insight into the normal practices of 
our ancestors:

http://www.geocities.com/kidhistory/found/p45x50.htm

>From which,
"The evidence which I have collected on methods of disciplining 
children leads me to believe that a very large percentage of the 
children born prior to the eighteenth century were what would today 
be termed "battered children." Of over two hundred statements of 
advice on child-rearing prior to the eighteenth century which I have 
examined, most approved of beating children severely, and all allowed 
beating in varying circumstances except three"