The Veil, HP & LOTR [was: Re: The Veil in the Chamber of Secrets?]

[Geoff Bannister]

No: HPFGUIDX 120767


--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "greatelderone" 
<greatelderone at y...> wrote:
> 
> --- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, aUser wrote:
> > Silvana:
> > I like to compare the characters JKR develops with Tolkien's 
LOTR. 
> JKR
> > herself once stated writing her books she was inspired by 
> Tolkien's work.
> > 
> > I made up some ideas of who might be who, but I had doubts about 
> who is
> > Aragorn.
> > I admit that I thought of Ron because of the Quidditch-
> jingle "Weasley is
> > our king". But it didn't fit that good - Ron seems more to be Sam.
> 
> Agreed Ron does fit the Sam analogue quite well.
> 
> As for the Aragorn analogue, it's Harry of course. Both are beings 
> chosen by prophecy(Harry by Trelawney and Voldemort while Malbeth 
> predicted that Aragorn as Heir of Isildur would walk the paths of 
> the dead) who have been raised in obscurity from their heritage
> (Aragorn was raised in Rivendell and not told of his true heritage 
> and Harry by the Dursleys) with their mothers playing a major role 
> in their lives(Lily for Harry and Gilraen for Aragorn). Aragorn is 
> given Anduril the reforged Narsil and Harry wields ever briefly the 
> sword of Godric Gryffindor with Aragorn being the heir of Isildur 
> while Harry as many of speculated is the Heir of Gryffindor to 
Tom's 
> Heir of Slytherin. Finally both are of mixed blood, Aragorn himself 
> has a bit of elven blood due to the fact that he is descended from 
> Elros of Numenor while Harry is a mixture of both muggle born and 
> purebloods and is thus a half blood.


Geoff:
I think there are dangers here in trying to make a direct parallel 
between characters in HP and in LOTR; it's a bit lke Cinderella's 
siters trying to make their big feet fit the glass slipper...

I can see GEO's argument for Harry=Aragorn from the comparisons made 
but again, Harry/Ron do compare well with Frodo/Sam. 

Harry also has to go forward and face perils on his own - the 
Basilisk for example as Frodo has to face Shelob. Agreed, the 
outcomes are not arrived at in quite the same way but there are 
similarities.


Silvana:
> > Peter Pettigrew (Wormtail) = Wormtongue
 
GEO:
> Peter Pettigrew is NOT an analogue for wormtongue. He more 
> closely resembles Gollum, contemptible creatures under the Enemy 
> that in the end will play an important part in good's triumph over 
> evil.


Geoff:
Now there I would disagree with you. Both Grima and Peter Pettigrew 
have surrended themselves to an insidious and evil being and have set 
out to plot the downfall of people around them - Theoden/the Potters. 

Gollum has becomne the pitiable creature that he is because of the 
erosion of his will by the Ring; the "two Worms" have each 
voluntarily allowed themselves to be corrupted by their evil masters.


Silvana:
> > Fudge = Theoden 

GEO: 
Fudge is definitely not Theoden. Fudge consciously refused to 
> believe in Voldemort's return and tried to discredit anyone that 
> said otherwise. Theoden was just an old man being misled by 
> Wormtongue.


Geoff:
That is too simple an analysis. Theoden may have been older (he was 
71 at the battle of the Pelennor Fields) but he was a man of great 
dignity, power and loved by his people and at the height of his 
powers t Helms Deep and Minas Tirith. It was the wearing away of his 
will by Grima through the sorcery of Saruman that brought him so low.


Silvana 
> > I still wonder about who might be comparable to:
> > Hermione Granger
> 
> GEO: Eowyn, niece of Theoden, only due to the fact that Eowyn is 
the 
> only major female character in LOTR that gets her hands dirty.


Geoff:
Eowyn came to my mind also immediately, although I think she lacks 
the pushiness and acerbity of Hermione.

I go back though to my first point; we cannot make characters from 
each book fit the same template. There is no "one size fits all".