[HPforGrownups] Re: Harry's revenge on Snape?

[Silverthorne Dragon]

No: HPFGUIDX 90505

{Alla}

You misunderstood me. I believe that Harry's desire to hurt Snape
will not transform into any evil action against him, that is why it
will not lead the boy to Darkness.

If Harry will somehow hurt Snape's pride by his positive action
(saving his life, for example) - yes, I strongly believe that he is
entitled to it.

{Anne}

Ah, thank you for clarifying...it sounded like you DID want Harry to take
like action against Snape in earlier posts....and yes, that would open the
door for more negative steps for our hero to take if he does.


{Alla}

To be a bully like his father was? Well, to be called a "bully" towards
Snape, I strongly believe that Harry should be the same size as Snape is
first of all.

{Anne}

hmmmmmmm....okay, then let's try 'judgemental', shall we?--or
self-riteous....

"Well," said James, appearing to deliberate the point, "It's more the fact
that he *exists*, if you know what I mean..."

Clear case of judgement there....goes right along with Harry's idea that
Sirius's death is all Snapes fault, and he will never forgive him for it.



{Alla}

Whether it will teach Snape anything or not, I want him to taste his own
medicine.

{Anne}

And would that make it 'right'? IMHO, no it would not. If you expect the
'villains' to redeem themselves by changing thier moral tune, then you might
want to wonder why you would expect other people to go down to the level you
expect those villains to crawl out of in order to be redemable...and that is
the crux of my point. Lowering yourself to their level does no good for
anyone. Dumbledore tries to halt it whenever one of the characters start in
on another...Remus Lupin constantly tries to explain 'the other person's
point of view' when Harry  starts railing about how unfair Snape (or even
his own father) had been--reminding him that he shouldn't get angry...it is
a constant theme underlying what most of the calmer, saner aduts of the book
present when the question of "why SHOULDN'T we do the same thing back, why
SHOULDN't this person suffer too?". And to ignore that is to ignore that
very point.

{Alla}

He chose from the victim to become a bully. I want him to stop the cycle of
hate first, not Harry. Otherwise we must pay for our choices.

{Anne}

Uh....clarify the last part of that sentence? I agree that Snape must learn
from his own mistakes...but treating him to the same hell he gives others
won't work. He already had that as a child--through what his own father, and
then James and the others, did to him. What he is doing now is repeating
that same pattern on other people he himself suffered through (A typcial
pattern of abuse, if you want to go that route). He doesn't need anymore
'lessons'...he needs someone to drag him OUT of the cycle....

{Alla}

For the record, I believe that Harry will forgive him at the end. If Harry
hurts Severus in the process (not physically, but emotionally, which hurts
just the same in my opinion), I will not cry much.

{Anne}

And here is where you and I differ vastly. Repeating the same mistake on
Severus that he makes with others is a crime unto itself. It will not heal
him...it will not help him. It will only shove him further into the Darkness
he's tried to crawl out of. And since Dumbly has allowed him back into the
fold, I have to say that that means, at least for now, Snape DOES have the
chance to be redeemed...but it won't be by passing judgement on him....or
getting 'revenge'.

{Alla}

Nope, I don't suggest at all for Harry to learn and exercise hate towards
another human being, what I am suggesting , that he is entitled to smack
Severus a couple of times, that is all. :o)

{Anne{

That IS hate....and that is what he has for Snape right now....

{Alla}

OK. See despite the fact that Harry is the hero of the book, I don't expect
of him more than I expect of adult. I don't expect him to know better than
his adult teacher does.

{Anne}

Why not? Isn't that part of the point of the story...for Harry to be
'better' than his enemies? To learn to not wallow in the same hate and
violence than they do? No? Than what, exactly, makes him a 'good guy'? The
people he choses to hate and fight over the people he doesn't? Although
there are some absolute morals and values in this world, what truly makes
people 'better' is thier ability to get beyond thier own petty hurts and see
clearly...

{Alla}

OK again. Yes, for some literary characters I expect the redemption can be
found in death only. Whether Snape is one of them for sure, I will tell you
after book 6 come out.

{Anne}

Or book seven, which is when Rolwing has told us all to 'look out for
Snape'...

{Alla}

What IS depressing for me is that I expected something to change for better
after GoF. I LOVED Snape showing his dark mark to Fudge. I expected him to
realise that Harry is NOT James. He saw what this child went through. He
knows what burden is on the boy's shoulders. He still does not hcange.

{Anne}

No, he doesn't seem to make a BIG change...but...he DID listen to Harry in
Umbridge's office, even though it didn't seem like it at the time...he DID
do his best to get Dumbly and the others to the MOM ASAP...and he DID tell
Sirius not to go...although, considering the damage those two had done to
each other, it's no surprise Sirius did not take him...seriously....the
point is, he did do some positive things in the book. He believed Harry...he
listened....and he tried, snarky as he is...to do the right thing with that
information. But neither he nor the Order are Gods...and so, Sirius lost his
life in the process...


{Alla}

Whether you find it harsh and judgemental or not, if we find out that
Snape's behaviour towards Harry and other Gryffs was not an act, yes, I
believe that the only way he could be truly redeemed is to die in  the
process of saving Harry

{Anne{

*Shrugs* And I beleive the human spirit, even in Snape's case, is far
stringer and complex than that....