Ship predictions(scenarios)

[Hitomi]

No: HPFGUIDX 90643

Hitomi:
Konnichiwa!  I haven't posted anything in quite a while, and ships 
make me giggle, so I wanted to comment on Jim's thoughts.  I still 
need to reply to Mandy's Peter Pettigrew post, I just haven't gotten 
around to it.


Jim F. wrote:
> *nods* I too have noticed this trend in shipping tendencies. I 
> myself identify quite closely with Hermione and I ship H/H. To me 
> pairing Hermione with Ron is just unthinkable. I don't relate to him 
> at all as a character. I also have never enjoyed the arguing between 
> Ron and Hermione. But lots of people do identify with Ron and those 
> who ship R/H enjoy their bickering. I sometimes wonder if there is a 
> preponderance of Ron fans on the R/H ship. Either way, I think most 
> shippers are reading through tinted glass. We use canon to back our 
> arguments, but the interpretation of any quote is still highly 
> subjective.

Hitomi:
I am in total agreement that ships are rather superfluous to the 
series as a whole, and extremely immanent.  I am one of those that 
relates to Ron and Hermione's bickering (though I'm not a huge Ron 
fan), they're like an old married couple (at least the ones in my 
family).  Not to say that I want Ron and Hermione together, or 
married, or whatnot (because I honestly couldn't care less), but 
I've always seen them as the established couple of the books.  
They're just... sort of already together.  Again, I think this is an 
example of the fact that I am still a teenager (and I don't mean 
that as an excuse).  Ron and Hermione act like a lot of my friends, 
especially when they are attracted to somebody.  They're not mature 
about it at all, and I know I'm certainly not.  The Ron/Hermione and 
Harry/Hermione arguments have just always struck me as... extraneous 
to the point.


Jim F. wrote:
> I don't think that you can analyze ships by quotes, or by analyzing 
> canon.  We're not trying to prove who killed Cock Robin here.

Hitomi:
This is what I find so funny about ships.  People literally get 
discomfited concerning them, when they really don't matter, and we 
have no REAL proof of any.  I look at JKR's work a lot like Austen's 
(which I think is permissible, considering JKR is a gigantic fan of 
Jane Austen's).  The couples you think are going to form probably 
never will.  The only canon references we can work with are 
nitpicked to death.  They could mean a number of things.  

Personally, I have never been a Harry/Hermione fan, mostly because 
it would be just... ew.  Like incest or something.  I know if they 
do end up together, JKR will put in the development I need to feel 
okay about it (like Austen's "Emma," or "Mansfield Park"), but right 
now, it's just... ew.  Harry shows NO romantic interest towards 
Hermione whatsoever, he gets bored around her.  And with Hermione, 
it's kind of hard to tell.  She shows no preference for Harry she 
doesn't also express towards Ron, unless you count her seeming 
ruffled about Fleur and not Cho (displaying a preference towards 
Ron), which is again nitpicky.  If she's attracted to Ron, then 
Hermione's just waiting for Ron to figure his own feelings out, 
because I think it's pretty safe to say he's attracted to her 
romantically.  If she's attracted to Harry, well, then I think she's 
going to be waiting for a rather long time.  

Usually I ship whatever couple has at least one attracted to the 
other, just because I want the characters to be happy.  I love 
Harry, and he liked Cho, so I wanted him to be with Cho (even though 
I knew that was going to be a disaster, which it was).  I like Ron, 
he likes Hermione, so I want him to be with Hermione.  Same went 
with Ginny in the first four books.  Now, concerning Harry and 
Ginny, I just don't care.  If they end up together, then yay!  If 
they don't, whatever.  As long as they're happy.


Jim F. wrote: 
> ONE BIG HAPPY WEASLEY FAMILY
> 
> OBHWF is a minefield in shipping debate, beginning with a double R/H 
> and H/G wedding, and everybody living happily ever after on Walton - 
> er, Weasley - Mountain.  Many shippers find it too corny and 
> saccharine for words, but I don't.  Harry's going to be beat to hell 
> at the end of the war, wounded, in mind and probably body, exhausted, 
> and more stressed than anyone should ever be.  He'll need all the 
> support he can get, and most people would count themselves blessed to 
> be in the bosom of a family like the Weasleys, who know him, love 
> him, and understand him.  Love is the greatest power in the Universe, 
> and the deepest mystery in the Department of Mysteries.  Where else 
> but OBHWF would there be more in one spot?

Hitomi:
Honestly, I really like the idea of the big-happy-Weasley-family.  
It is incredibly contrived, beyond-words-contrived, but I still like 
it.  I've noticed on this list that most are rather despondent 
towards the ideas of the contrived happy endings, stating they're 
too corny, silly, or unrealistic.  But it's a book.  It's supposed 
to be contrived.  Happy endings are always unrealistic, considering 
things never end, and rarely turn out happy.  Doesn't stop people 
from wanting the happy ending, though.  This is to say, of course, 
whether or not Harry lives.

Oh, and wouldn't it be funny if Ron and Harry had Fleur as a sister-
in-law?

 
Jim F. wrote:
> THE CASE FOR HERMIONE AND HARRY
> 
> I said I'm an H/H shipper, for one overriding reason: never have two 
> people been more suited to each other, perfect soulmates.  Hermione 
> has been the person who has prepared him for his challenges; while he 
> is the greatest natural talent of his generation, she is the exemplar 
> of what hard work and application can do - a perfect yin and yang.  
> She understands him better than anyone else.

Hitomi:
Ok, the soulmates thing is pushing the envelope a bit.  I just don't 
see it, at least not to that exaggerated point.  I am again in total 
agreement that the sensible side of Harry does suspiciously sound 
like Hermione, and that she has helped prepare him.  But she's 
helped prepare Ron (in growing up), too.  I've always seen Ron and 
Hermione as the yin and yang - she brings Ron back to his head, and 
he brings Hermione back down to earth.  And I've always noticed that 
Ron observes things about Hermione that Harry completely overlooks.  
If Harry is a soulmate to one, then he also the soulmate to the 
other.

What I mean by that is Ron and Hermione BOTH balance Harry, as they 
balance each other.  Alone, Harry has no fun with Hermione (lots of 
examples in Books 4 and 5), and does no work with Ron (lots of 
examples in Books 3 and 5.  He needs them both.


Jim F. wrote: 
> Hermione cares for him as much or more than anyone. When she asks 
> after Harry and Cho, what's going on there? Is she not interested in 
> Harry, or not aware of *how* she might care for him, or is she mature 
> enough to know his feelings for Cho have to be resolved, that the 
> risk must be run?  I don't know, but I know that Harry and Hermione 
> love each other already.  It may not be romantic love, but they are 
> incredibly close.  Hermione with anybody else - even Ron - would be a 
> step backwards in intimacy.

Hitomi:
I agree and disagree with you.  Hermione does care for Harry in a 
way Cho never could, as does Ron.  They all three love each other 
deeply.  That's why I always refer back to the incident with the 
dementors in Book 5 - the one happy thing that pulls Harry out, when 
other memories have failed, is the idea that he will never see Ron 
or Hermione again if he dies (or has his soul sucked out, same 
thing).  They all three need each other, romantic feelings aside.

Again, the scene where Hermione asks Harry about his date with Cho 
is nitpicked to death.  I have always related to that scene as a 
concerned friend asking a best friend about his love life.  I'm the 
same way with my best guy friends, and I never mean anything 
romantic by it all.  And as I said before, Hermione never seems 
threatened by Cho, and never on the same level that Cho feels about 
Hermione.  She did insult Fleur, however, when Ron showed any 
particular interest.  She may just not have liked Fleur, but 
Hermione does not seem in the least bit jealous or hurt about 
Harry's regard towards Cho.  She honestly seems to not care at all, 
just as long as Harry is happy - she's the one who pushed Harry to 
date Cho, Ron was the one who seemed more against it out of the 
two.  And I know that when I like a guy, I do want him to be happy, 
but it wouldn't stop the slight resentment from showing through if 
he liked another girl and was discussing her with me.  Hermione 
seems remarkably well-adjusted on the chance she may like Harry.  
And yes, Hermione is mature for her age, but she does have a 
tendency to get emotional about things, and if you'll notice, 
especially things concerning Ron.  Ron brings that out in her; he 
hurts her far more quickly with barbs throughout the series, than 
Harry does yelling at her all through Book 5. If Harry and Hermione 
do get together, it will be around Book 7, because they don't act as 
if they are romantically interested in one another at all.  If I 
liked Harry (and I were Hermione), especially at the ages of 13 to 
15, I would not at all be acting as Hermione does towards Harry.  
But I would act as she does towards Ron.

I think it unworthy of the trio's love for each other, to say any 
romantic relationship with Ron would be a step back in intimacy.  
Like I said, they love each other deeply, and if any romantic 
feelings occur between Ron and Hermione, or Harry and Hermione, then 
that is the way it should be.  Harry would be happy for Ron in such 
a circumstance, I don't know about Ron if Harry and Hermione ended 
up together.  And I hate and loathe, absolutely destest, the idea of 
a love triangle.  It would ruin the dynamic of the trio, and it 
would be extrememly and uncharacteristically convoluted of JKR to do 
such to their friendship.  Ron or Harry could make Hermione happy.  
I just have yet to have real proof that Hermione could make Harry 
happy as far as marriage and such is concerned.


Jim F. wrote: 
> Harry has noticed her, and the subtlety of the clues make them more 
> convincing.  In OOP, when she suggests he tell Cho how ugly he thinks 
> Hermione is, he says 'but I don't think you're ugly!' which was a 
> spontaneous letting out of his feelings.  In GoF, there were true 
> sparks when he noticed her at the Yule Ball.  These seeds are not 
> idly planted.  They will burst out someday.

Hitomi:
Again, the nitpickiness.  I could write the same sort of thing about 
Ron, and Ron showed far more interest in her than Harry did at the 
Yule Ball (through jealousy, of course, but that is beside the 
point - Harry was only interested in Cho).  Again, in relation to my 
own experience, I always saw Harry's realizing Hermione is pretty as 
a friend realizing his best friend might be considered attractive.  
I know I find quite a few of my own friends attractive, but I would 
never date them.  It doesn't necessarily mean anything.  It could go 
either way.
 

Jim F. wrote:
> Harry's 'saved' Hermione, too.  I don't mean physically, although he 
> has, but Hermione knew early that she would be a different person and 
> a lesser one without being in the Trio.  She started out with an 
> affinity to Percy, but look at how the two have diverged.   Because 
> of her adventures, because she's discovered real purpose, she's a 
> young woman of character and moral courage and Percy's a disgusting 
> sycophant.  She might have been a Ravenclaw at heart when she 
> arrived, but there never was a truer Gryffindor now. She's seen what 
> bravery can do.  Hermione has gained immensely from knowing Harry.
 

Hitomi:
The trio has saved each other.  The trio will always be the most 
important relationship in the series to me - the romantic feelings 
just don't really matter.  They each have grown and learned and 
loved from having been with one another.  Ron with Harry, Hermione 
with Ron, and Harry with Hermione.  Thats why I always see the ships 
between the three as inconsequential.


JIm F. wrote:
> WHAT DOES HARRY NEED?
> 
> If Harry ends up with Ginny, he's going to have a supportive, loving 
> woman and family, a healing balm for all the hurts he's got and will 
> get.  If it's Hermione, she's going to care for him in a different 
> way, pushing him when he needs it, tough when she has to be, 
> challenging him back to health.   Which does he need?
> 
> If anyone wants to argue their viewpoint based on the idea that "JKR 
> says so," that's weak, IMO.  JKR doesn't want us to do that.  She 
> wants us to find it in the meaning of her text. She keeps telling us 
> everything is there, and it is.  
> 
> I come down on the H/H side, but I won't cry for him if he ends up 
> with Ginny, no way. She's a great girl, and they all deserve to be 
> happy.

Hitomi:
My point exactly.  And Ginny never backs down with Harry yells at 
her ;)

JKR had this to say though, concerning the ships in Book 4:

Q: "Dear Ms. Rowling, I'd like to ask if there would be a lot of 
romances between the characters in the upcoming books?"

JKR: "Good question. I'm having so much fun writing Book 4 because 
for the first time Harry, Ron, and Hermoine are starting to 
recognize boys and girls as boys and girls. Everyone is in love with 
the wrong people. Let no one say my books lack realism."

Let's see, that means Harry and Cho is all wrong (sorry H/C 
shippers), Hermione and Krum is all wrong, Ron and Fleur is all 
wrong, and Ron doesn't realize how he feels about Hermione, so I 
don't know if that is wrong as well.  I also don't know if Ginny's 
attraction for Harry is wrong, because JKR seems to be just 
referring to the trio.  Same with Neville/Hermione, or 
Neville/Ginny.  Anyway, I thought it was an interesting quote, and 
very Austen-ish.

I am, at the moment, shipping R/H, H/G (if he ends up with anyone), 
and Neville and Luna I don't really care.  But until Book 6, 
perhaps, changes my mind, that's where I stand on the topic.  But 
Ron could end up with Pansy Parkinson for all I truly care, as long 
as the characters end up happy.

Ja ne! ~ Hitomi, who is still highly amused by Ron and Hermione, 
whether or not she ends up with Harry