Vampire/Half Vampire/Schvampire -was all the other vampire Snape stuff

[junediamanti]

No: HPFGUIDX 88438

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "koinonia02" <Koinonia2 at h...> 
wrote:
> --- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "junediamanti" 
> <june.diamanti at b...> wrote:
> > --- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "koinonia02" 
<Koinonia2 at h...> 
> "K"
> 
> Oh, the old sunlight issue again. 

June:

No - not old fairly standard I think.  
> 
> June: 
> > I'm talking traditional vampire here, and not Ann Rice's stuff.  
> 
> "K"
> 
> So who's tradition are we talking about?

June:
Try european folklore, try English literary mythpool, eg Stoker, 
Byron et al.  All fairly central about the no daylight idea.  How 
many other traditions are there?  And what traditions are you 
holding up for inspection?  Which vampire tradition has daywalking 
Vampires?  Do tell.

>  
> June:
> > When I don't have work to think about in the morning, I 
> > quite like to stay up until 2 am - that does not make me a 
vampire.
> 
> "K"
> 
> We aren't talking about our world. We are talking about a fantasy 
> world.

June:
so indeed am I.  But I assert the best literary fantasy worlds tend 
to be firmly rooted in realism - that is one of the reasons that 
JKR's books have been so successful and so compelling.  She has not 
had to create an alternative universe to do it, but rather has 
created a Wizarding World that exists cheek by jowl with our own.  
The Wizarding World as drawn by JKR exists IN our own world, at 
least that is what she is trying (in my opinion successfully) to 
make us believe.

If she creates an entirely alternate universe, I freely accept she 
will keep some fans, but also state that she will lose a good many.  
Tweaking the conventions is one thing, chucking them all out of the 
window is quite another.  If this is a vampire walking around in 
daytime, without problems, let's be honest and call him something 
different entirely.  That's not a vampire as I understand the word 
from 35 years of reading horror stories as well as folklore and 
legend.  The daytime thing is fairly central. I've seen the crosses 
and garlic debunked, not the daytime.  Obviously in pursuit of 
support to your theory you will say that "the daylight thing doesn't 
matter" - bad news - to me and the rest of us anti-Vampire!Snape - 
it most certainly does.
> 
> June:
> > And JKR has not tinkered with the traditional werewolf canon 
> 
> "K"
> 
> How many werewolves do you know who take a potion? I also don't 
know 
> many werewolves who run around with friends who can turn 
themselves 
> into animals.

Okay - tinkered in that respect.  He still has most of the symptoms 
though.  He still becomes a wolf at full moon.  He takes on the 
appearance and behaviour of a wolf.  Full scale tinkering would 
enable him to sprout wings and fly, perhaps, or still speak fluent 
english whilst transformed.  The potion is a comparatively new 
development.  Before its invention, Lupin was no different from 
the "traditional" european legend style werewolf.  And if as you 
say, you don't know any werewolves who can run around with animal 
friends - well I don't know any werewolves at all;-) - all my 
werewolf aquaintances are in books - particularly folklore 
references such as Brewers Dictionary of Phrase and Fable.  

However, the concept of wizard shape-changers is fairly well part of 
the wellspring of fantasy too.  

I think JKR took the concept of a child with a particular problem 
who would have trouble fitting into a school and storied ways in 
which Lupin could be part of that and fit in.  A metaphor 
for "fitting in" generally - put there for children and adults to 
relate to.  

Snape doesn't have problems fitting in because he's a vampire, he 
has problems fitting in because of his personality.  
> 
> June:
> I simply believe it would not serve the plot one iota.
> 
> "K"
> 
> And I think vampires are going to be a big part of the story. It's 
> not just going to be one little vampire.

If he is a vampire (and he isn't - just forget it Vampire!Snape 
fans) - he's certainly not going to be a LITTLE vampire.  If I must 
accept Vampire!Snape - it'd sure better be BigVampire!Snape.
> 
> June: 
> > It's a red herring 
> 
> "K"
> 
> To cover what?

Not to cover anything.  Red herrings do not have to exist to cover 
other things.  It's just a "let people suspect he is a vampire" 
thing, if they want.  If people buy that, fine, just don't expect me 
to support it.  What does it serve having: 

a.  Snape as a vampire, half vampire, whatever nonsensical variation 
of genetics you want-ire
b.  Tearing up the whole vampire canon just to make him one? 

Tearing up the rules in fantasy often implies desperate writer to 
me. I don't think JKR is desperate.  I think making Snape a vampire 
would be an act of desperation by JKR.  Far harder to write a 
tortured and damaged man. 
> 
> June:
> > Psychotic nutter!Snape - I can buy that,even welcome it as 
> > interesting at least
> 
> "K"
> 
> I think we surely differ on what would be interesting. Psychotic 
> nutter? 

Why not?  No less plausible than the daytime Vampire.  And perhaps 
you believe the Death Eaters just get together to play darts in the 
appropriate Knockturn Alley pub?  Perhaps he is a keen killer, 
rapist and pillager.  Psychotic nutter is good enough for me.  I 
found Hannibal Lecter a thoroughly engrossing character -he was 
psychotic nutter enough and smart too.  Characters do not have to be 
fluffy to be entertaining.  
> 
> June:
> >just a two dimensional vampire? 
> > Give her some credit.
> 
> "K"
> Who said Snape would only be a two dimensional character if he 
were a 
> half-vampire? Give her more credit? I do. 

I don't have to - two dimensional is surely in the eye of the 
beholder.  That would be in mine.  
> 
> 
> June: 
> > If he is being set up as the personification of a moral dilemma 
at 
> > the heart of the book (and I believe that is the case) then 
let's 
> > have a flawed and realistic adult human being wrestling with it, 
> not 
> > some undead thing or half-breed.
> 
> "K"
> 
> Then let's make all the characters only wizards. No werewolves,  
> giants, merpeople, trolls, goblins, vampires, veela's, fairies, 
> wizards who can turn into animals, wizards who can change their 
> appearance, etc. Actually, let's make then all muggles. To heck 
with 
> imagination.

Oooh.  None of these were original you know - I can direct anyone to 
the appropriate bit of traditional folklore for these characters.  
She didn't make any of them up.  Sure she tweaked some of the 
characteristics. And by the way, all the merpeople still live in the 
water.  

You seem to be extrapolating my views about Vampire!Snape somewhat 
excessively here.  I don't BELIEVE he is a vampire.  I don't think 
it will happen. I said that I preferred this central character to be 
human - we all have hopes for the story.  Its a very long way from 
that assertion to implying I am saying JKR should only write kitchen 
sink drama.

If I am going to relate to this character then I personally would 
prefer to relate to a person, that is all.  
>  
> June: 
> > And for what it's worth - I think the final truth will be 
> > TragicallyRedeemed!Human!Snape. 
> 
> I hope so. :-)
> 
> 
> "K"
> I guess I must get my vampire essay together.

Do.  Not that I'll buy any of it!!!

June