[HPforGrownups] Re: Vampire/Half Vampire/Schvampire -was all the other vampire Snape stuff

[Amanda Geist]

No: HPFGUIDX 88466

June:
> Oh, I see, Snape is a MEDIAEVAL VAMPIRE.  Well that certainly
> explains the costume, I suppose.
>
> I suspect you are moving the goalposts each time you consider the
> idea.

No, she's  not, really. The problem is that vampirism isn't a pure, clear,
established set of characteristics. It has varied over cultures, time
periods, and (lately) artistic interpretation.

I used to have a wonderful book, which Sheryll now has and which I need to
replace, called "Vampires, Burial, and Death," by Paul Barber. I
***HIGHLY*** recommend this book. It is a superb analysis of vampire legends
from several cultures (mostly, but not all, European, for most cultures have
hostile undead legends), cross-referenced with an analysis of what happens
to bodies when they decay. Bodies don't all decompose the same--it's
affected by whether someone dies suddenly, after a long disease, etc.
Vampire legends are attempts by people to account for these effects. This
book is *fascinating.*

Among other things, he draws a basic distinction between folkloric and
Hollywood vampires. I believe this book was written before the "alternate
lifestyle" vampires became so popular.

Vampires, folkloric ones, don't drink blood. At least, it's very uncommon to
find it associated with the legend. Folkloric vampires are associated with
plague and sickness, and are drawn back to their nearest and dearest.

Bram Stoker's Dracula was a step away from folkloric vampires. Hollywood
vampires stepped further. And all the current "entertainment" vampires (Ann
Rice, Buffy, etc.) are pretty much off the page from folkloric vampires.

So depending on where a person is, and their cultural background, and what
entertainment genres they prefer, you're going to get a different take on
what a vampire even *is.* And then you're going to get that different take
applied to the inarguably ambiguous canon about Snape. No *wonder* we can't
agree.

Our problem here is that we have no real idea what constitutes a vampire in
JKR's world. What most of the "Snape is not a vampire" people lean on--what
*I* lean on--is the evidence that when JKR uses a "pre-existing" magical
creature, she tends to adhere to standard interpretations of them.

To me, this tendency of hers tends to make me consider all the
"part-vampire" theories invalid, because folkloric and "traditional
Hollywood" vampires are either/or.  Part isn't possible if you use *that*
model for your vampires.

However, even if you don't allow "part," there's still massive room for
argument because of the broad range of "what makes a vampire" available
amongst the different folkloric and "traditional Hollywood" variants.

Until we have a clearer idea of what set of characteristics define JKR's
vampires, all this is so much hot air. The only useful thing we can do at
this point is comb through the canon for references and list a compilation,
and compare Snape with those. Otherwise, it's statements of opinion. Which
are fine until people get upset.

> Lets stick to the central eastern european vampire lore, shall we -
> otherwise we'll be getting into the oriental idea of dipping into
> the victim's spinal fluid or worse.  Allow me to run through what I
> consider to be fairly central tenets to the vampire myth vis a vis
> Snape.
>
> 1.  Blood drinking.  No canon evidence for his doing this at any
> time.  No listless pallid students - except as normal listless and
> pallid teenagers.  The difference between teenagers and vampire
> victims?  Very hard to call this one, I should know as mother of a
> teenager. Oh and spare me mention of the blood lollipops.

I think the play on words of "blood suckers"--which I, by the way, had
*never* thought of and it put me on the floor--is priceless and likely
enough reason for them lollipops to exist.

I think we can give JKR that her vampires drink blood--so very few people
know that blood-drinking was not associated with true folkloric vampires,
that's probably a given.

> 3.  He does not go out to watch quidditch games muffled up to the
> eyes - but dressed as he normally does - indeed in POA he actually
> goes colourful for the only time in canon!

I know, I love that Snape wears green for that.

> June:
> Cloak wearing doth not a vampire make.  That't the only evidence
> there is.  Essentially if vampire theorists have to either make up a
> potion, or come up with this Dhampir stuff to make it work, that
> seems to me a pretty broken down theory.  I've yet to read a shred
> of convincing evidence for it.

Actually, the combined list of "little hints" *is* pretty impressive. It has
yet to convince me, because all of them have other little hints that seem to
invalidate them, or other valid ways to explain them--but that is the skill
of the writer. Snape is deliberately ambiguous, in just about all aspects
except his preference for black and the state of his hair.

If it proves to be true, and he *is* a vampire, the groundwork will have
been skillfully laid, considering how it *can* be argued away. Based on the
same evidence, there are people 100% convinced one way or the other, with
justification.

It doesn't fit into my personal "take" on the character, though. My
objections to his being a vampire have more to do with overloading his
character, overloading the story with semi- or former humans, and not
allowing him to be a mess of *human* emotions, than any argument based on
vampire characteristics.

> June:
> And therefore why does a tortured and damaged character HAVE TO BE a
> member of an exotic species?

See, that's still something we don't know. Lycanthropy has pretty well been
established in JKR's world as a disease, as legend holds it. Werewolves are
not another species; they are humans who are ill.

We don't know yet if vampires are another species in her world, or if they
are ill humans, or if they are dead humans.

> We all have things we want to happen.  I want it to be proved that
> Snape loved Lily, that he did turn good before the fall of LV, and
> that he will redeem his human self in the end.

We already know your second desire. He did turn good before Voldemort's
fall, or when would he have been a spy?

~Amanda, ancient Snapologist and advocate of Snape-loved-Lily