Harry the Auror + a QUESTION

[sachmet96]

No: HPFGUIDX 89058

> For those interested in the question and not the debate, its the
> last thing before my sig. at the end, so just scroll down. ^_^ -
Frost

sachmet96
It seems we are the only one interested in the debate :-).

> > sachmet96
> > That's no excuse if it were then everyone who tries to shoot 
> someone  and misses because of inexperience with a gun would also 
> not be guilty. 
> 
> Frost:
>  	 Maybe, if he had tried to use a gun. But I don't think a 
> wand is like a gun and any comparison would be misleading.
> 
>  	 Anyhow, if you attempt to assault someone, and fail, it is 
> considered a lesser crime.  And its never cut and dry, you can have 
> a charge lessened by extenuating circumstances, which these were.  

sachmet96
Maybe but I am still not entirely convinced. If he had used not an 
unforgivable but another curse I would agree with you.

> > sachmet96
> > But what it comes down to is that Harry tried to kill someone at 
> the 
> > age of 15. I don't think such a thing can be overlooked. 
> > 
> 
> Frost:
> 	  No, he didn't. He just tried to hurt someone very badly.  
> Crucio is not the same as a AK.

sachmet96
But he still wanted to kill her (he says so). We don't know why he 
didn't use AK maybe he didn't know how to use it but felt surer with 
Crucio (and I do think this curse could kill) or it's just the bad 
memories assosiacted with AK that stopped him from using this curse.
Also he remembers Neville when he cast the curse so maybe he used it 
because he wanted to torture Bellatrix first and then kill her 
slowly. We just don't know. 

 
> > > Sachmet96
> > > He also hasn't  shown any significant (magical) abilities above 
> > > average.
> > 
> > Frost wrote: 
> <snippy>
> I doubt any of them, with the exception of Hermione, would be able 
> to produce a real patronus when faced with a real dementor.
> 
> > sachmet96
> > I do think all of them would be able to do it (or nearly all of 
> them). Of course we will have to wait and see for the next books to 
> hopefully get an answer.
> > 
> 
>  Frost:
>  	  I guess its obvious that I don't agree with you. <lopsided 
> grin>  And I think the cannon supports me. 

sachmet96
And I just love to disagree :-)

Frost:
>  	"They had finally started work on Patronuses, which 
> everybody had been very keen on to practice, though as Harry kept 
> reminding them, producing a Patronus in the middle of a brightly 
lit 
> classroom when they were not under threat was very different to 
> producing it when confronted with something like a dementor." (OoP, 
> p.606)

sachmet96
He is exaggerating. His reactions to everything are overly emotional. 
Lupin for example faces the moon boggart and doesn't bat an eye. The 
problem Harry has is that he is too uncontroled/emotional, that's 
also one of the reasons why he was so bad at occlumency. We don't 
know how others would react. They do know now about boggarts, 
dementors and what they do and knowing something makes it usually 
easier to stand against it. So I still think they would be perfectly 
able to defend themselves.

> 	It's not easy magic, and even worse, its magic you have to 
> do while under extreme stress.  You can't panic, you can't think 
> about anything but your happy thought.  You have to override every 
> single "fight-or-flight"  response. And you have to overcome the 
> dementor's sucking all you're happy thoughts out of you for food.  
> Anyhow, not all of them could do it in the book.  
>  	 "[Harry]'...What we really need is a boggart or something; 
> that's how I learned, I had to conjure a Patronus while the boggart 
> was pretending to be a dementor-'
>  	 'But that would be really scary! said Lavender, who was 
> shooting puffs of sliver vapor out of the end of her wand. "And I 
> still --can't -- do it!" she added angrily." (OoP, p.606)
>  	
> 	 The book goes on to say that Neville was having trouble, 
> and Seamus had just gotten "something hairy" (OoP, p. 607) but it 
> didn't last long enough for Harry to see, or for Seamus to tell 
what 
> it was. We don't get a run-down of who can and can't do it, but not 
> everyone has it, and no one has had the chance to do it under any 
> sort of pressure, other that peir pressure.
>   Of course, they could surprise me. <grins> we'll see. ^_^

sachmet96
Good quotes, but (does it surprise you?) they don't convince me, as I 
said Harry is overly emotional and has little self control. We will 
have to wait and see what happens. 

> > Frost wrote:
> >  He has leadership skills, and can work well on a team.  
> > 
> > sachmet96
> > I also disagree here. He only works well with a team of his 
> choosing  and his leadership skills worked reasonably well for a 
> team of his choosing too but that doesn't say anything how it will 
> be with  others. 
> 
> Frost: 
>  	Actually, the only "team members" he chose out of the ones 
> he lead to the Department of Mysteries were Ron and Hermione.  
> Ginny, Luna, and Neville were not his choices at all.
>   	"...If [Harry] could have chosen any members of the D.A. in 
> addition to himself, Ron, and Hermione to join him in the attempt 
to 
> rescue Sirius, he would not have picked Ginny, Neville, or Luna." 
> (OoP, p. 761)
>  	 However, he still took them (not his choice really) and he 
> lead them.  And they followed.  He was the clear leader in the 
> Department of Mysteries, and he took responsibility for them in his 
> action after he realized he had been tricked.  Being tricked isn't a
> sign of bad leadership, just a sign of bad thinking, or good 
> thinking on the part of the tricker. Or both.  

sachmet96
But he did know Ginny, Neville and Luna they were if not friends at 
least people he knew. So that makes a different. We don't know how he 
would have acted with strangers. And I think he made an error when he 
lead them to the MoM because he just overruled Hermione's objections 
and common reason. His emotions again got in his way. I don't think a 
good leader should be ruled by his emotions but look at the situation 
as a whole. He had been told the whole school year that Voldemort 
would be able to manipulate him but he doesn't consider that fully 
but acts instead of thinking.

Frost
>  	 Also, look at the DA.  It was Hermione's idea, but he ended 
> up being the leader.  He made the choices of curriculum, and he had 
> the ability to get their respect, even from Zecharias Smith.  And 
> even though it wasn't his idea, he did make the conscious decision 
> to lead this thing.  He would have to, if he was teaching it, and 
> teacher is a role of authority.  Frankly, he did a good job. 

sachmet96
I am not denying that he did a good job and earned respect but he 
wasn't really a teacher but a tutor and there is a difference between 
them. People interact differently with a tutor than a teacher and a 
tutor is considered one of them while a teacher is more an authority 
figure.
At least that's my experience.

> sachmet96:
> It was shown so far that he doesn't like to work with others  but 
is 
> constantly trying to solve anything on his own - so he is not 
really 
> a team's person.
> 
> Frost:
>   That is a good point.  He has been resistant to trusting others, 
> esp. Authority figures.  Though, growing up with the Dursleys as 
> Authority figures, I can't blame him. *sighs*  However, his 
> relationship with Ron & Hermione has caused him to trust Ron and 
> Hermione, and rely on them for help.  At this point, I will agree 
> with you, he's too much of a loner to make it.  But then, he's 
> growing, and maybe he'll learn to rely on others more in the next 
> books.  I'd like to think so, its a trend I think I see, but that 
is 
> only conjecture.  

sachmet96
I hope he learns it in time and cools down a bit.

Frost:
>   Anyhow, who knows.  Maybe by the end he won't want to be an auror 
> anymore.  After all, he'll have dealt with "the Darkest Magic there 
> is",  and he might be tired of it.  Which leads to another  

sachmet96
Actually one of the reasons I am against him being an auror is that I 
have the feeling he does see the job glorified. Like for example many 
kids want to become a fireworker or something but when they grow up 
see it was just a dream and recognise that the job carries a lot of 
responibility and danger and deside against doing it. 


> QUESTION:
> 
> If Harry is not an Auror after Hogwarts, what do you think he will 
> be.  This is, of course, assuming that he isn't dead.  

sachmet96
Hard question Harry has shown so little interest in anything except 
Quidditch but I can't picture him as a Quidditch player.
I think his job choice will also depend on who/what places he wants 
to stay close. So if he wants to be near Hogwards (and Haggrid if he 
survives) I could see him working as Game's Keeper assistant, it 
would also be a quiet job which he might like. I don't see him as a 
teacher as he will most probably not have the patience and as I said 
I think he would prefer a quiet job.
Or he might not work at all. He has lots of money so he might decide 
to just enjoy life.
to Frost: What do you see him as?