Umbridges Motives (some spoilers)

[KathyK]

No: HPFGUIDX 89383

Hi all,

Let me begin by immediately stating I do not for one moment believe 
Dolores Umbridge is a Death Eater or a supporter of Voldemort.  If 
in the next book, JKR explicitly states Umbridge is a DE, then I 
will believe it.  It will make me very, very unhappy if she takes 
Umbridge in that direction because making every evil character (yes, 
I think Umbridge is evil...and horrible, nasty, repulsive, hateful, 
cruel, and not a little bit stupid) a supporter of LV is a cheap 
trick and not representative of real life, which JKR seems to like 
to mirror in many respects.  Umbridge and Fudge are a different kind 
of threat than LV.  Making either of them anything other than LV's 
unwitting puppets does not do justice to the Potterverse.  I don't 
know if I'm expressing this properly, but it's one of the few 
theories that I actually feel rather strongly about.  Anyway, on 
with the post!

Just so you all know, I'm going to be mixing up the order of the 
previous posts a bit so I can address things Rolshan and Vecsey both 
brought up all at once.


Rolshan wrote: 
> > But think how incredibly helpful to V a murder of
> > Harry Potter would have been. Or expelling Trelawney
> > from the school where she is protected from DE's
> > attempts to find out what the prophecy was or finding
> > out about any new prophecies.
> > 

And Vecsey wrote:

> She tried to kick out ST and she did kick 
> out
> Hagrid, she implied Giants to Hagrid. While Harry is under the
> invisibality cloak in Hagrids house, the first time Umbridge meets
> Hagrid.  and WHY did she hate Trelayney so much?  She isn't a half
> breed, it just didn't add up.  

KathyK replies:

As far as the Dementors go, Umbridge was, as she said, doing what no 
one else at the Ministry was doing.  She was acting while the others 
were discussing.  And I don't believe for one moment she did it for 
any other reason than to protecter her position and the positions of 
those who support Fudge at the Ministry.  Sending the dementors was 
supposed to be a win-win situation for Umbridge.  Either Harry would 
have to use illegal magic or he would have his soul sucked.  Well, 
we know what happened, but how was Umbridge to know that a squib was 
there and was going to ruin the whole thing.  Without Mrs. Figg, 
there was no other evidence that dementors were really there.  Harry 
would have lost his hearing.

The other side of the coin is that Harry and Dudley would have been 
kissed.

Geoff wrote in 89374:

"What would have happened if the Dementors had succeeded and Harry 
had received the Kiss? In the Real World, we would have had the local
paper reporting that a youth (or even youths?) had been discovered
comatose; the condition had doctors baffled. Quite what Vernon and
Petunia's reaction would be is open to speculation.

"Knowing that the house was under observation, members of the Order
would have latched onto the tragedy pretty quickly. Would they have
recognised it as the result of a Dementor's Kiss?

"So, it would not go unnoticed in the Wizarding World. Even if the
Prophet was running headlines "Harry Potter Missing" and finding ways
of making snide comments about his apparent problems, things would
leak into the open. Fortunately, it didn't happen but it would have
opened an interesting can of worms for our dearly beloved DJU."

KathyK:

If Harry was soul-sucked, it's possible that not only he and Dudley 
would have been victims, but Mrs. Figg as well, thus losing the 
Order's only witness to the attack.  It's my belief the Order would 
have known/suspected what happened to Harry.  But what would they do 
about it?  Would they have believed the Ministry had done it?  Or 
Lord Voldemort?  Now, the Order may believe the MoM is responsible, 
but they may not know who specifically did it.  And going around 
accusing the Ministry of sending dementors after Harry would not be 
the way to handle the situation.  If they did try that tactic, it 
would just be another instance of Dumbledore being off his rocker, 
trying to get his hands on the Minister's job.  

Either way, I think Umbridge sort of knew what she was doing, even 
if, as Geoff said in a paragraph I snipped, "Umbridge thinks on the 
hoof."  She hadn't considered all the consequences of her actions.  
I don't believe for one moment that she did it for Voldemort, 
though.  Remember, he's still in hiding, biding his time, gathering 
followers.  It would not behoove him to off Harry so early in his 
new rise to power, giving away the secret that he's alive.  Harming 
a hair on Harry's head is a sure way at least bring up the 
possibility that LV had returned, something he didn't want at that 
point.  

And onto Trelawney...I don't think Umbridge firing her had anything 
to do with the prophecy or Voldemort.  Surprised?  Umbridge likes 
power, control, and intimidating people.  Trelawney is an easy 
target for her.  Umbridge enjoyed evaluating Trelawney, scaring her, 
screwing up her concentration in lessons, and finally firing her.  
She took pleasure in it, both because she got to exert her authority 
over Trelawney, and because she was about to stick it to Dumbledore.
Dumbledore, of course, ruined Umbridge's triumphant moment.  

Yes it's disgusing that she takes pleasure in intimidating and 
controlling people.  It's even a bit evil the way she does it.  But 
it *does not* mean she's a LV supporter.  

Rolshan wrote:

> > Also it seems clear that she knows about Hagrid's trip
> > to the giants...in the Hagrid's Tale (or should it
> > have been Hagrid's Tail as Galdriel Waters says?)
> > chapter, she makes this clear with her references to
> > the mountains, etc. Yet Hagrid thinks it was DE's
> > tailing him and DEs dealing with the giants. So how
> > did she find out? Was the ministry tailing him and mdm
> > Olympe too, if so why on earth? Or did she know from
> > DE's???????????????????//
> > 

KathyK:

Okay, Vecsey brought up the giants in the post as well.  If Umbridge 
is not a Death Eater, how is it she appeared to know just what 
Hagrid was up to on his little trip?  That's easy.  A few points to 
look at can clear this right up, IMO.

1. In the Chapter, "The Parting of the Ways," in GoF, Dumbledore 
*tells Fudge* he needs to send an envoy to the giants.  Fudge thinks 
this idea is ludicrous.  By the end of their meeting, it's quite 
clear that Fudge doesn't believe Dumbledore-or is too scared to 
believe him-and therefore would not be doing much of anything to 
work against a newly born Voldemort, including sending an envoy to 
the giants.  

2. OoP Fudge is working hard to thwart Dumbledore's attempts to warn 
the WW of LV's return.  Now, it's my opinion he truly refuses to see 
Voldemort's back because he's afraid and power-loving and it would 
spell disaster for him as Minister if the WW even thought there was 
a possibility Voldemort had returned.  So he turns on Dumbledore 
instead, viewing him as the threat to his position and the stability 
of the WW.  He knows Dumbledore is up to something and he decides 
Dumbledore must want control of the WW for himself, that he's 
building an army to use against Fudge.  And Fudge thinks, what did 
Dumbledore say about the giants?  Maybe he'll be trying to persuade 
them to attack and take over the Ministry.  Well, we can't have 
that.  So he's got Umbridge installed at Hogwarts to keep an eye on 
Dumbledore and Harry and to try and bring them under control.  

3.  Rita Skeeter kindly blabbed Hagrid's secret about being half 
giant back in GoF.  Fudge and Umbridge are aware of Hagrid's 
heritage.  Imagine how suspicious it looks that Hagrid's gone away 
somewhere.  Hmm...Dumbledore wants to send an envoy to the 
giants...hmm...Hagrid's half giant...could it be?  Well, it's rather 
obvious I should think.  Umbridge seemed to *know* where Hagrid has 
been because she *did* know.  

So you see, there's no need for the Ministry to have been tailing 
Hagrid and there's no need for Umbridge to be a Death Eater to 
figure out where Hagrid was.  Dumbledore pretty much told them.

Vecsey wrote:
 
> What did it for me was when she was going to use the Curcio on 
> Harry
> to get him to tell her who he was talking to in the fire in her
> office.  She was enjoying herself.  She talked herself into it. Not
> like the imperious curse where you do what you are told, No she was
> having a really good time.  

KathyK:

Umbridge is a nasty, nasty woman as I mentioned before.  She takes 
pleasure in exerting power over others.  She used that quill 
Harry...and not just on Harry, either.  She made numerous insane 
decrees aimed at keeping the Hogwarts population under control.  She 
had a lot of fun tormenting Hagrid and Trelawney during their 
evaluations.  Umbridge likes hurting other people.  It doesn't mean 
she has to be a Death Eater.  I guess I don't really have much more 
than that.  I just don't see why she would be as she's already got 
power and prestige.  She has the authority to do things like send 
dementors to Little Whinging without anyone ever knowing it was her-
until she stupidly told Harry.  She is a bully.  She goes after 
those who will not stand up to her (openly).  And when people do 
stand up to her or show their disdain for her, like McGonagall, she 
pretty much backs down.  Even if she wanted to be, I don't think 
Umbridge has what it takes to be a Death Eater.

KathyK, who, as usual, should be doing other things.  But this is so 
much more fun!