Harry and special abilities (was Occlumency and Shield Charm)

[Hitomi]

No: HPFGUIDX 89445

> Hitomi:
>   Harry is incredibly strong- willed, and I think it ignorant of 
> readers, who don't believe Harry has special abilities.  
> 
> Frost:  
>   I'm sorry their  words annoy  you, but you shouldn't insult 
people 
> just because they don't agree with your vision of the character.  

Hitomi now:
Ok, I'll clarify some things, because I've obviously offended at 
least someone, when that was never my intent.  Saying briefly that 
in one instance I believed someone to be ignorant of a fact or 
circumstance, having passed it and/or overlooked it, was never meant 
to be an insult.  I just meant that as human and ordinary as Harry 
is, there are things about him that are special, and I was replying 
to a hypothetical reader that would refrain from realizing or 
mentioning that, not to an actual reader on this list.  Again, it 
was never meant to offend, and I apologize if it has.


>  And I'm going to keep repeating this quote in my signature, 
because 
> the Harry-bashing is annoying me to death.  Why on earth are you  
> reading a series named after him, if you don't like him? (Not to  
> mention, how can you not love Harry?  His character is beyond  
> beautiful.)

> Frost:
>   I can only speak for myself, and I will.  Harry may be a 
beautiful 
> character, but it is because he is flawed.  As an artist,  I know 
> that while most people tend to like things that are perfectly 
> symmetrical, it is that which is unsymmetrical that is more 
> interesting, and more worth your time to wrestle with.  Harry is 
not 
> perfect. Actually, he annoys the crap out of me sometimes.  He 
makes 
> mistakes. He's not in perfect balance. He's not wonderfully 
> blessed.   I would point out that he's been rather thoroughly 
> cursed. ;)  
> 
> 	  If he were so specially gifted, as you seem to see him, I 
> would be bored.  How many times have I read about perfect 
> characters, or characters  who "aren't perfect" but are still 
> somehow always in the right.  Wonderfully gifted characters don't 
> come up against real struggles; certainly not ones I can identify 
> with.  I find amazing beauty in a character who is no more gifted 
> than those around him, and yet he strives and through his 
struggles, 
> becomes something more.  I think Harry does have some gifts and 
> talents, but no more than other people.  I would hate for him to 
> become a "ubercharicter."  The type who runs into a battle and 
then 
> you know that the battle will be won.  I've already read that 
story, 
> a thousand times.  It's boring. Worthless. 

Hitomi now:
Another point I want to clarify, because I never made it clear, and 
it seems to have given the wrong impression: I never said I thought 
Harry was perfect.  I don't.  Far from.  He's actually astoundingly 
ordinary.  Almost... uniquely ordinary.  And what I meant by 
beautiful was loving, giving, compassionate - the things we all 
strive for in our character development.  Do I think Harry is 
amazingly talented?  No.  Hermione is more proficient, just perhaps 
not in a life-threatening situation.  Dumbledore is a far more 
powerful wizard than Harry will probably ever be.  The bashing I 
tire of is usually in reference to Harry's using the Cruciatus curse 
at the end of Book 5, those who have stated he is ruthless, 
completely immature, hateful, etc.  I've already posted my thoughts 
on said argument, so I will not be redundant and reiterate them.  
Harry is just a beautifully loving person.  That is all I meant.  
Again, I'm sorry if I have offended anyone, or if this has led to 
any misunderstanding.

Harry is flawed, and as Frost has covered the reasons for that being 
beautiful, I'll leave that floor to Frost.  I'll just add my two 
cents by saying I have always found the beauty in imperfection, as 
Dumbledore states in Book 5, next to last chapter, Harry is human, 
and it is why he cares so much.  Human meaning inherently flawed, 
born into original sin (by my belief system).  It's what makes his 
character so compassionate to begin with, that understanding of the 
imperfection in himself and others.


>  	 As you may have noticed from other posts, I'm not willing 
> to say that Harry is completely without talent, but I don't think 
> he's any superman either. I think he has places where he's good at 
> things, and places where he is bad. I don't think he is going to 
be 
> a natural Legelmens, he doesn't have the focus of mind.  He is 
> bloody stubborn, which does translate into a certain amount of 
will-
> power, but that is as much a flaw as it is a strength.  I think 
that 
> is an interesting insight on the part of JKR.  It pleases me 
> greatly. ^_^  

Hitomi now:
Nor do I think he is Superman, if he were a Mary Sue, I would never 
have loved the series the way I do.  I just think that in order for 
him to defeat LV, there are things about him, perhaps some other 
ability, that we don't know about yet.  Or perhaps we do know about 
it, it just hasn't revealed itself in full.  And there is that whole 
rumor about Lily and Harry's eyes, his strong will, the talent he 
has in DADA, etc.  He has special abilities, he has talent, the 
Sorting Hat made that clear in Book 1.  I don't mean he's 
invincible, not at all, I just mean he has his talents as we all do, 
and again, the posts I have become frustrated over are the ones that 
failed to mention that fact.


> 	Most of all, the Harry bashing that you complain about is in 
> a way, some of the greatest praise JKR can get.  They aren't 
> complaining about how poorly Harry was written. They are 
complaining 
> about him as though he were real; a person that they know and want 
> to kick the crap out of for being a brat. (ok, maybe that is a 
> little strong, but you get my point.) 

Hitomi now:
Again, I wasn't referring to those who say he is young, needs to 
grow up, irrationally angry, etc.  He's fifteen, of course he needs 
to grow up.  I'm eighteen, and I accepted a long time ago that I'll 
never REALLY know anything at all.  I was referring to those who say 
he is hateful, ruthless, etc.  That just isn't Harry.
 

> Hitomi:
>  > JKR in responding to a reader asking her which character she 
> missed most when done writing (at Royal Albert Hall interview with 
> Stephen  Fry): "I really miss all of them, but I suppose I'm going 
> to have to  say Harry, because he is my hero and there is a lot of 
> me in Harry."

Hitomi now:
I do so love this quote :)

 
> Frost:
>   That just means that she loves him, warts and all.  And being a 
> hero... heh.  I think she's a woman who has enough insight to see 
> beyond the "muscle" and see what is truly heroic about a person. 
> That doesn't require them to be perfect.  I mean, really who would 
> you rather read about?  Superman or Batman. I'd pick Batman any 
> day.  Batman is my hero, and he's the dark grumpy guy without any 
> superpowers, (beyond his Bottomless bat-wallet.)  Hero's don't 
have 
> to be perfect.  They just have to show something that we admire 
and 
> strive for.

Hitomi now:
I agree.  Though personally I never particularly liked Superman or 
Batman :) I think the character Harry has always reminded me most 
of, in his beauty, heroism, and extreme imperfection, (and perhaps 
becuase we read him as a child, too) is Ender Wiggin (the Ender 
series by Orson Scott Card).  Though who are meant to lead and 
protect are the ones who believe they are most undeserving.  And I 
didn't make that understanding of mine clear.  I am sincerely sorry 
that your post was necessary, it should not have been.  And I thank 
you, Frost, for pointing out MY mistakes.  I hope I have, at least 
in part, rectified them.

For those curious as to the argument I became so very frustrated 
over, please refer to my post at this link:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/89317

I apologize to any I have offended.  Harry just happens to be my 
favorite character, and I have a tendency to be slightly put out by 
those who blatantly insult him.  Though I'll be the first to admit 
his faults: brash, stubborn, quick to anger at times (or all of the 
time in Book 5), not always willing to admit to his mistakes or 
those of his friends, lashes out instead of walking away... :)

~ Hitomi, who really does love Harry, flaws and all

"I'm not one to despise other people for their sins.  I haven't 
found one yet, that I didn't say inside myself, I've done worse than 
this" (Ender from Speaker for the Dead, Orson Scott Card 350).

"In the moment when I truly understand my enemy, understand him well 
enough to defeat him, then in that very moment I also love him.  I 
think it's impossible to really understand somebody, what they want, 
what they believe, and not love them the way the love themselves" 
(Ender from Ender's Game, Orson Scott Card 238).