Did Harry See Lily Die? (Was: Neville's Role)

[Steve]

No: HPFGUIDX 89849

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "elfundeb" <elfundeb at c...> wrote:
> > Siriusly Snapey Susan:
> > ...  What do you mean when you write that Harry didn't SEE his 
> > mother's death?  Harry was  15 months old, and at that age he 
> > definitely could have seen the whole thing.  His memory might not 
> > be able to hang on to much of the  experience, but I believe he 
> > saw it alright.  Or are you saying that 
> > Lily blocked his vision?  
> > 

> ElfunDeb:
>
> No, I believe that Harry saw nothing of Lily's murder, for a couple
of reasons.
> 
> First, if Harry had seen Lily die, he should have seen the thestrals 
> his first year at Hogwarts.  ...edited...
> 
> The second reason is that the memories that the Dementors bring to 
> the surface are only audio memories. ...edited...  Either way, I 
> don't think Harry saw either the murder or a dead body.
> 
> Debbie


bboy_mn:

My impressions of the event-
1.) It was nighttime.
2.) Lily and Harry were upstair. Not use I can prove this, and it may
be movie contamination, but upstair/upper floor is always how I
pictured it in my head.

So, if I start with those assumptions, what can I conclude? What would
a baby be doing upstairs at night? ...Sleeping perhaps, or at least in
bed?

Extending that assumption, what kind of bed would the baby be in?
Bed, bassinet, crib, or cradle?

Putting a baby in a bed is never safe, so that's out. Given the
somewhat out-of-date world that wizards live in, I can only assume
they used a bassinet (a large wicker basket like baby bed) or a
cradle. The cage-like crib seems a little too modern, and doesn't fit
with other representations of 'baby containment devices' I've seen in
movies and photos that are representative of this apparent point in
historical time.

Conclusion, a bassinet or cradle has high solid sides, and would have
given Harry a very very limited view of the room.

This is compounded by wondering whether a 15 month old is capable of
processing the information sufficiently for it to sink in. Is a baby
capable of sufficiently processing the event to allow him to see the
Thestrals? Personally, I don't think so.

I know that doesn't add much to the discussion, but I think the basic
logistics make it unlikely that Harry saw, or saw with any awareness,
his mother die.

Just a thought.

bboy_mn