Injustice & corruption in the MoM (Was: Goyle was not at MOM & is not in Azkaban

[Diana]

No: HPFGUIDX 104301

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "samnanya" <yswahl at s...> wrote:
> Diana L.
> We don't know for sure that Goyle wasn't one of the DEs arrested 
at the MoM, because Harry didn't know the identity of all the DEs 
that were there. All the DE's in the MoM were wearing masks as well, 
though several of them removed their masks during the chase for the 
prophecy ball.
> If Goyle wasn't arrested at the MoM, then he would still have to 
> go 'on the lam', so to speak, to avoid being arrested, because 
Harry named him as a DE and the WW will believe Harry's story now 
because of Voldemort's personal appearance inside the MoM.
> 
Samnanya responded:
> Harry might indeed know if he was listening carefully at the door 
to Lucius Malfoy barking out orders for the death eaters to split 
into groups. THere were 12 de's there and if you check the names, 
Goyle was not among them. JKR spent a lot of words describing who 
went where, and Goyle was noticeable in his absence {so was 
wormtail, but that wasnt quite as glaring to me. Goyle and Crabbe 
are always describled together - like sons like fathers]

Diana L.:
Okay, Goyle wasn't at the MoM in OotP [thanks for all the names in 
the other posts!], however, I still think the WW would be inclined 
to lock him up and put him on trial for being a DE.  

Samnanya again:
> Goyle would not need to go on the lam because he did not "commit a 
> crime". Last i recall, it is not a crime to assemble in a 
cemetary, even if you are welcoming the return of the dark lord. And 
it has been established that trials are necessary in the WW needed 
to prove guilt or innocence.

Diana L.:
I disagree on this one.  The ministry locked up Hagrid in Azkaban 
without a trial in CoS, with Fudge even saying, "If it turns out it 
wasn't Hagrid, he'll be back and no more said." and "Not a 
punishment, Hagrid, more a precaution. If someone else is caught, 
you'll be let out with a full apology-"  
If Harry hadn't discovered Riddle's diary and convinced Dumbledore 
of the truth, who in turn convinced Fudge, Hagrid would still be 
locked up in Azkaban "as a precaution" with no trial in sight.
The Ministry also locked up Sirius without a trial.  In GoF, page 
526 US edition hardback, Sirius says, "Oh I know Crouch all right," 
he said quietly.  "He was the one who gave the order for me to be 
sent to Azkaban - without a trial."  Don't forget that Fudge had 
also okayed the Dementors to suck out Sirius' soul, which is a 
punishment that surpasses the death penalty in cruelty.  
Look at the Ministry's treatment of Harry throughout OotP for 
another example of "guilty until proven innocent".  The Minister of 
Magic himself, building on Rita Skeeter's article, encourages the 
belief that Harry is a deranged, attention-seeking liar.  Fudge also 
plants a spy at Hogwarts in order to spy on and interfere with 
Dumbledore and Harry.  Hardly the behavior of a political leader 
thinking in terms of justice.  
I think that visiting the Dark Lord in a cemetary to 
celebrate/acknowledge his return would indeed be viewed as a crime 
in the WW.  At the very least, Goyle aided and abetted a known-
murderer [Voldemort] and the MoM might think that Goyle, along with 
the other DEs, would know where Voldemort is and try to force him to 
tell them.  
Fudge said, "You are merely repeating the names of those who were 
acquitted of being Death Eaters thirteen years ago!" when Harry 
named "Avery - Nott - Crabbe - Goyle-" as DEs.  This implies there 
was a trial or at least a hearing for Goyle in the past, which leads 
me to believe that Goyle could not be arrested and tried for perjury 
if he had testified for himself.  
Also, look at the non-prosecution deal Fudge made with Willy 
Widdershins in exchange for Willy's info about overhearing Harry 
Potter's first DADA meeting in the Hog's Head.  McGonagall put it so 
succinctly. "Oh, so *that's* why he wasn't prosecuted for setting up 
all those regurgitation toilets!" said Professor McGonagall, raising 
her eyebrows.  "What an interesting insight into our justice system!"
The MoM is certainly corrupt and guilty of great injustices, not 
only under Fudge as the Minister himself, but under Barty Crouch Sr. 
many years before when Crouch was head of Magical Law Enforcement.  
In my opinion, Goyle deserves to be locked up in Azkaban, but 
expecting him to get a trial before going there?  I don't see it 
happening in the MoM portrayed in PoA, GoF and OotP.  

Diana L.