Return from the Underworld in Ancient Mythology (Re: Sirius Black)

[mhbobbin]

No: HPFGUIDX 104447

   Firedancer wrote:
  Now, when Harry is talking to Nick, Nick definitely says that Sirius
  chose, and I underlinechose here, to go on. That seems to indicate
   that the man definitely died. Now, I do hope there is a way for      
   Sirius to come back in some fashion, but how's he going to swing it?


    Finwitch wrote:
    If Harry is to travel through the veil and come back.... why can't
   Sirius just comeback? Yes, Sirius is dead, I know this. However, I
   am concerned with how Harry is going to get to the underworld, and    
if it is through this veil, what is going to anchor him 'alive', so
that  he is able to come back? 

   Fridwulfa wrote:
    But remember that all of us who think Harry will go the"underworld"
   and live to tell the tale are more or less basing our theories on 
  ancient myths, and in all of them without exception the "hero" was able
to return to the "living world" so... How?

mhbobbin writes:
There have been many excellent comments on this ancient myth-related
theory.  My personal take on it is that in each case of returning from
the Underworld in Classic Mythology, there is some negotiation and
then some condition put upon the event. Persephone can only spend part
of the year away from the underworld. Orpheus must not look behind him
to see if Eurydice is following?he does at the last minute, he loses
her permanently and cannot enter the underworld again. Psyche is not
supposed to open a jar given to her in the Underworld?she does, she
dies, and is rescued by Zeus and brought to life.  So even in Ancient
Mythology there?s more to it than knowing where the entrance is and
knowing how to get past the giant three headed dog.(Just where is
Fluffy these days?) No doubt JKR will devise her own twists on the
rules should she pursue a story line like this.

JK Rowling has said that Sirius is dead, but she has also made
statements apart from Sirius about how if a person is not properly
dead etc. So her statements on this matter are not in my mind
definitive in this instance. I do believe that Sirius is now dead. 
JKR could have also chosen many other ways to inflict sudden death on
Sirius with the same lesson of coming to terms with loss. I believe
that if JKR did not intend for us to reference these ancient myths and
their possible implication for the story, she would not have killed
Sirius in this particular fashion. I think the manner of death is
rather lame unless she meant for us to make this connection.  


But the main reason  that I lean to  this theory is the presence of
the pomegranate. JKR inserts it where it doesn?t even belong. Harry is
not supposed to be adding it to the potion. And the only connection
with pomegranate I can find is related to Persephone.

Nearly Headless Nick does say that Sirius would go on etc.. But does
he speak from true knowledge of Sirius? feelings?he hasn?t had contact
with Sirius-- or does he speak from his own feelings of what Sirius
would do if faced with the same dilemma as Nick? I don?t think Nick
has any special knowledge of Sirius?s feelings here, only his own
knowledge of death.

My theory ultimately is that if Sirius is needed for a final battle
etc. or has some special skill we don?t yet know about etc., that he
would come back. He was considered a powerful wizard though he didn't
get to use much of it. But it may be conditional. Harry may have to
strike a bargain with whoever in JKR?s world controls these things. It
may not be an easy bargain.

mhbobbin