Sirius and Percy... also HBP (was: Re: Dumbledore and Sirius; Percy Weasly; Defe

[delwynmarch]

No: HPFGUIDX 105226


Amey wrote :
> What gave you impression that "both" James and Sirius had picked 
> fight with him? It is nowhere mentioned that they *both* attacked him
> at the same time even once in the whole scene.

Del replies :
OoP, UK, p,569
"All right, Snivellus ?" said James loudly.
Snape reacted so fast it was as though he had been expecting an
attack: dropping his bag, he plunged his hand inside his robes and his
wand was halfway into the air when James shouted, "Expelliarmus!"
Snape's wand flew twelve feet into the air and fell with a little thud
in the grass behind him. Sirius let out a bark of laughter.
"Impedimenta !" he said, pointing his wand at Snape, who was knocked
off his feet halfway through a dive towards his own fallen wand.
Students all around had turned to watch. Some of them had got to their
feet and were edging nearer. Some looked apprehensive, others entertained.
Snape lay panting on the ground. James and Sirius advanced on him,
wands raised...
(end quote)

Granted, they take turn attacking. But that's still 2 of them against
Snape on his own.

Amey wrote :
> Also, we know that he attacked James when he was not watching him, 
> and could have done again if Sirius hadn't stepped in.

Del replies :
So what ? James started the duel, and it hadn't been declared over.
Everything was allowed and James should have kept a closer eye on
Snape. After all, we read on page 349 :
"Good one!" said Harry encouragingly, deciding not to point out that
in a real duel Neville's opponent was unlikely to be staring in the
opposite direction with his wand held loosely at his side.

Amey wrote :
> Here nobody is coward (I agree not even Snape) because it was always 
> a fair fight, one-to-one,

Del replies :
One-on-one, as in James vs Snape, then Sirius vs Snape, then James vs
Snape ? That's not *my* concept of one-on-one, when Snape is supposed
to keep track of who is his opponent right now. Especially when they
are both advancing on him with their wands raised.

Amey wrote :
> Taking your last point first, I hope any of my 19 year old friends in
> this situation chooses to go ahead with his parents more than he goes
> ahead with *people who count*.

Del replies :
Then why do we condemn the DEs' kids for following in their parents'
footsteps rather than siding with Harry ? They are siding with their
families rather than with the people that count (DD and Harry).

Amey wrote :
> I mean, it's not just testimony of a boy, his parents have seen it 
> and they believe it fully.

Del replies :
Arthur has seen nothing, he wasn't at Hogwarts.
Molly has seen what went on in the hospital wing, and I doubt she
understood everything (did she figure out who was the Crouch that had
been Kissed ? I doubt it)
His parents believe. Big deal. Percy believes also, but not the same
thing. It all comes down on who believes what, and that never was
enough to convince anyone.

Amey wrote :
> Here, if we are taking example of guru, he did go ahead with a sect 
> *The Ostrich Sect*, spearheaded by Fudge.

Del replies :
Granted. But because the guru is not honest, doesn't mean his
supporters are not honestly following him. Fudge is not going around
telling people to refuse the truth, he's saying that DD is lying,
that's nowhere the same.

Amey wrote :
> As for the important person bit, I am sure it matters more to check 
> if what he is saying is true than refusing it outright, because you 
> don't want to believe him. You want to believe all good things doen't
> mean only good things will be said to you, Fudge should remember 
> this. He is a classic *Ostrich* we hear in stories.

Del replies :
Fudge, yes, but not necessarily Percy. It's Percy I'm defending, not
Fudge.

I, Del, wrote :
> > Maybe that's the heart of the problem : most people don't see Percy
> > as a living, breathing, feeling human being, but just as a machine
> > with a different label according to the book. 

Amey replied :
> I agree he is a human, but the problem is not people seeing Percy, he
> placing those titles before his person and rationale.

Del answers :
But just like it's not fair for people to see Harry only as the Boy
Who Lived, it's not fair for us to see Percy only as his titles. Percy
doesn't have enough self-assurance to strip himself of those titles
and let people see the real Percy, but that doesn't mean it's fair to
see only those titles when discussing him.

I, Del, wrote :
> > He doesn't realise he's in a war situation, he thinks it's just a 
> > little conflict, with DD on the losing side.

Amey replied :
> So he goes with Fudge because he is winning and not thinking who is 
> right? Speak loads of him.

Del answers :
I never said that ! Percy goes with Fudge because he thinks he's the
one who's right.
What I meant is that Percy can't be expected to act like someone
having to choose a camp in a war, like some posters want him to,
because Percy doesn't realise it's a war situation. He thinks it's
just a little feud, with DD being wrong and rightfully losing.

I, Del, wrote :
> > Percy most probably doesn't know about Crouch Jr, nobody does 
> > outside of those that were at Hogwarts at the time it happened and 
> > the people in the Order.

Amey answered :
> The people in Order include his parents and brothers, 2 of which were
> in Hogwarts when all this happened. Need anything more?

Del replies :
At the time Percy was briefed, the Order was barely being reborn. Bill
and Molly were indeed at Hogwarts when things happened, but we don't
know how much they understood. The Barty Crouch Jr part in particular
is fishy : they heard several people mention the name of Crouch, but I
doubt they understood who it was supposed to be. Bill left without
being given an explanation, and we don't know if Molly received one
later. And even if they did receive an explanation, it was once again
a matter of *believing* : they didn't see Barty Crouch Jr, they didn't
see LV, they didn't Wormtail, they didn't see the Mark on Snape's arm.
It all boils down to faith, and faith is not contagious.

Amey wrote :
> Ron never despises ambition, all despise Percy (and some Crouch Sr) 
> for putting ambition over everything else. 

Del replies :
It's not ambition that Percy is putting over everything else, it's his
ego. The *only* thing Percy was ever good at was work. Percy was a
brilliant student, and he's now a very capable Ministry member. That's
the *only* thing he can be proud of : his work accomplishments. That's
also the only thing we ever hear other people praise him for, most
especially his parents. We never hear them praising him for anything
else but his good work. So it doesn't surprise me that Percy should
put his work before anything else : because that's where his ego lays.

You know, if Arthur had complimented Percy on getting into Fudge's
good papers, and had told him that this way he could be very useful
for the Order, I'm pretty sure the outcome would have been widely
different. If he had acknowledged Percy's hard work, and given him a
task to accomplish, rather than denying everything he'd ever worked
for and basically tell him he was worthless, Percy might have gladly
jumped into the Order boat. It was all a matter of wording : those
Weasleys are so hot-tempered !

Del