James the Berk?/ James vs. Vernon

[delwynmarch]

No: HPFGUIDX 105452


Stefanie wrote :
> > > I love James because he had a family, and loved his family; I 
> > > find that *very* important.

I, Del, replied :
> > Uh... Vernon has a family and loves his family. We see him 
> > repeatedly putting himself between them and whatever danger seems 
> > to be menacing them. But nobody loves Vernon, right ?

Stefanie responded :
> Again, I find this hard because James's situation is such that we 
> can't see him futher along in his family life for obvious reasons. I
> do recognize your point, (and I do admit, I got flustered opening up 
> your post xo) )

Del replies :
Sorry ! It's just that I remarked to my husband just a few days ago
that no matter how horrible Vernon might be to Harry, at least he's a
nice husband and father (though, as JKR pointed out, his treatment of
Dudley is actually bad parenting and won't be good for Dudley in the
end), and he sure defends his family in the face of danger. So of
course, when I read your post about James, I was immediately reminded
of Vernon.

Stefanie wrote :
> and fairly, since what we do know of Vernon is from the third-person 
> voice which identifies with Harry, we could even go to the far 
> extreme of saying that the horrible things he does may be colored in 
> this light.

Del replies :
Vernon is genuinely horrible to Harry, there's no denying that.
However, I don't remember seeing him being horrible to his family,
quite the opposite in fact. Vernon is a *nice* father and husband,
from  what we can see.

Stefanie wrote :
> how is Vernon displaying the love we're supposed to see?
> 
> --In the snake scene in PS there is no mention of him running to 
> Dudley's aid. In fact, he's not mentioned until he's locking Harry 
> into his cupboard.

Del replies :
It's kind of complicated for me, because I have only GoF and OoP at
home those days. But anyway...
The fact that Vernon is not mentioned as coming to Dudley's help
doesn't mean he didn't. But Petunia, as the mother, was the one most
likely to make a big fuss, so Vernon would probably appear quite
passive in comparison.

Stefanie wrote : 
> --Is Vernon's relocating of his family for their protection (is he 
> putting his life on the line here in the same was James was) more 
> out of concern for their safety or out of determination to keep 
> Harry's being a wizard under wraps.

Del replies :
I'm pretty convinced that Vernon was only trying to prevent Harry from
discovering the truth. In fact, this incident is an argument in your
favour, because it's quite obvious that Vernon doesn't care about the
discomfort he puts his family through at this time.

But remember when Hagrid comes in the Hut : Vernon tries to shield his
wife and son. Hagrid is mightily impressive, especially at night,
during a thunder-storm, and in such a small hut, and he just blew
their front door down, and yet Vernon *shields* his family. I think it
counts as sacrificial love.

Stefanie wrote :
> --In CoS, Vernon parades his son and wife as a barganing tactics for 
> his business endeavor, and as a result of the happenings of that 
> night willingly throws Harry into a highly abusive situation -- 
> there were no threats to his family's safety here...in fact, as he 
> had just found out that Harry was no threat, his actions are 
> completely unjustified as "protecting his family."

Del replies :
Harry was no threat for Vernon's family's *safety*, but he destroyed
an opportunity for Vernon to increase his family's *comfort*. The
contract he was hoping to sign would have allowed him to buy a holiday
house in Majorca. The Dursleys are obviously a very traditional
family, with Petunia at home and Vernon providing for their needs.
Harry preventing him from signing that contract was a direct attack on
Vernon's role as provider.

Stefanie wrote :
> --In GoF, before the Weasley's show up, Vernon has nothing to say 
> regarding wizards (or regarding their safety) save his disapproval 
> at what they would be wearing or their punctuality. Petunia and 
> Dudley are around the house apparently waiting to be there when they 
> show up. If Vernon had anticipated a dangerous event (such as that 
> which had happened with the exploding of the fireplace and the Ton-
> Tongue Toffees) he certainly seemed more intent on intimidating the 
> wizards rather than making sure his family was safely tucked away.

Del replies :
I'm not sure I understand you. At that time, the fireplace had not yet
exploded and the Ton-Tongue Toffee had not yet been eaten. Vernon
doesn't seem afraid of the wizards that are going to come and pick up
Harry because they've shown signs of normalcy by sending their request
by the normal post.

However, once the fireplace explodes, we see Petunia trying to shield
Dudley (it always makes me laugh to picture skinny, bony Petunia
trying to shield her massive son :-), and Vernon trying to shield both
his wife and son. I call that sacrificial courage.

Stefanie wrote :
> I bring this to the table:
> "I like torturing them," said Rowling. "You should keep an eye on 
> Dudley. It's probably too late for Aunt Petunia and Uncle Vernon."

Del replies :
As I said, Vernon is a quite horrible character. However, I find that
he's quite a nice father and husband. We don't see him abusing them,
yelling at them, or anything of the sort. He works to bring them what
he considers as necessary for a comfortable life. He doesn't criticise
them (even when he should : Dudley's temper and bad eating habits, for
example), and so on. That's much more than many RL fathers do.

Stefanie wrote : 
> Is it valid to put a member of the old Order of the Phoenix 
> (something that says just a bit about one's willingness to extend 
> sacrificial love)

Del replies :
Er... Might I remind you that Peter Pettigrew was also a member of the
Order ? And Severus Snape still is ? I don't think either of them
could be described as being full as "sacrificial love", could they ?

Stefanie wrote :
> on a level with someone who in the majority of encounters with "The 
> Threat" has been more concerned about decorum than the safety of his 
> family? 

Del replies :
... but is still someone who *never* failed to protect his family when
faced with immediate unknown danger. Vernon is scared of magic, but he
will never abandon his family when faced with a magical danger. We
can't deny him that one quality : sacrificial love for his family.

Del