James the Berk?/ James vs. Vernon

[lifeavantgarde]

No: HPFGUIDX 105474

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "delwynmarch" 
<delwynmarch at y...> wrote:
> 
> Stefanie wrote :
> > > > I love James because he had a family, and loved his family; 
I 
> > > > find that *very* important.
> 
> I, Del, replied :
> > > Uh... Vernon has a family and loves his family. We see him 
> > > repeatedly putting himself between them and whatever danger 
seems 
> > > to be menacing them. But nobody loves Vernon, right ?
> 
> Stefanie responded :
> > Again, I find this hard because James's situation is such that 
we 
> > can't see him futher along in his family life for obvious 
reasons. I
> > do recognize your point, (and I do admit, I got flustered 
opening up 
> > your post :o) )
> 
> Del replies :
> Sorry ! It's just that I remarked to my husband just a few days ago
> that no matter how horrible Vernon might be to Harry, at least 
he's a
> nice husband and father (though, as JKR pointed out, his treatment 
of
> Dudley is actually bad parenting and won't be good for Dudley in 
the
> end), and he sure defends his family in the face of danger. So of
> course, when I read your post about James, I was immediately 
reminded
> of Vernon.
<snipping references> 

Stefanie wrote : 
> > Is it valid to put a member of the old Order of the Phoenix 
> > (something that says just a bit about one's willingness to 
extend 
> > sacrificial love)
> 
> Del replies :
> Er... Might I remind you that Peter Pettigrew was also a member of 
the
> Order ? And Severus Snape still is ? I don't think either of them
> could be described as being full as "sacrificial love", could 
they ?

Stefanie
Oy! I definitely concede on this point! So very true! (And yet 
another reason why I shouldn't post on an all-nighter ;o) )
I think with this, it goes along with knowing what the character did 
next (something we obviously can't know in James's case). I guess 
with this, in contrast to Vernon, from what we know about James at 
this point (his "hatred of the Dark Arts" included, and how we've 
seen him put his life on the line for others before [regardless of 
who he was going in with intentions of benefiting, going after Snape 
during "The Prank" put his life in immediate danger]) I see his 
going into the order as a genuine effort to "fight for the good 
side" -- perhaps I'm taking too much for granted...but 
characterization points that way so far. With this, James took an 
offensive stance, not being passive until the last moment -- which, 
in all honesty, would've been the easier route; and which seems to 
be the route Vernon takes. 

> Stefanie wrote :
> > on a level with someone who in the majority of encounters 
with "The 
> > Threat" has been more concerned about decorum than the safety of 
his 
> > family? 
> 
> Del replies :
> ... but is still someone who *never* failed to protect his family 
when
> faced with immediate unknown danger. Vernon is scared of magic, 
but he
> will never abandon his family when faced with a magical danger. We
> can't deny him that one quality : sacrificial love for his family.

Stefanie:
With my original post of "loving James because he had a family," I 
give this as a reason to people who ask me "why not Sirius then?" in 
regards to my favorite character. It's the rest of him that that I 
pointed to that makes me adore him, too. If it were solely because 
he has a family then I may as well insert any of the fathers that 
we've met so far in James's place. It's the rest of his character 
that's been fleshed out in conjunction with his maturation 
and "settling down" that I think makes him fascinating...

Through it all, in the end James sacrificed himself without a second 
thought (if we believe the voice Harry hears during the Dementor 
attacks is actually James ;o) ) and that moment is what defines him 
in these books -- James and Lily are constantly referred to 
as "being murdered by Voldemort." What moment has defined Vernon?
>From what we know so far (and I'm not putting anything past JKR, 
mind you) what defines James and what defines Vernon put them into 
very seperate camps indeed!

Stefanie, who is signing off for a week and is looking forward to 
spending good time catching up come next Saturday! (and henceforth 
reminds everyone to hug their James today :o) )