"He who has left me for ever" [was Re: Snape's Destiny/JKR quotes) (Long)]

[Brenda M.]

No: HPFGUIDX 105502

>>> Pippin wrote:
> The Snape that Voldemort knew of old would have hated Harry 
> for James's sake and would not have been capable of  
> concealing it. Snape is thus the last person Voldemort would 
> think could be a spy--for *either* side
[and snipping rest of also relevant points for length sake]


Bren now:

Hmm. I like how you argued your side, but I'm more inclined to 
believe that either side believes Snape is their `espionage weapon' 
for the other. Just the mere fact that Snape has been working under 
DD for so long will be enough to raise a red flag in Voldemort's 
mind, IMO. Also if anyone tipped off Voldemort that Snape is always 
side by side with DD, almost like DD's right-hand man, then good old 
Voldy won't be happy. He should know, of all people, just how skilled 
Legilimens DD is (from all the staring behind moon spectacles Tom 
Riddle had received in Hogwarts) -- and if VM thought DD failed to 
see Snape's DE memories then it seems more plausible that Snape had 
struck a deal with DD.

However, I do happen to think that Snape went to "rejoin" the good 
side at his will, not on the mission for Death Eaters. Perhaps Snape 
sent VM a false image, the one containing the message of `Hmm, I 
wonder what DD's movies will be. How do we find out
' or something 
along the line. VM goes `that's a good idea, SSSnivellus' (sorry, 
couldn't resist) and sent him to spy on DD, when in fact Snape was 
the one initiating the whole thing with every intention of returning 
to the good side. 

Although this doesn't explain why Snape failed to inform Harry during 
their Occulmency lessons that VM could use the connection to send 
Harry false imageries...


>>> Pippin continues:
> Voldemort believed at the end of GoF that Snape had left him for 
> ever, but Snape's return would of course prove that he hadn't. No
> doubt Voldemort thinks, and JKR has hinted that Dumbledore is 
> worried about this too, that the lure of the Dark Arts was simply 
> too strong in the end for Snape to resist. <<<


Bren now:

I thought the one "who has left me for ever" was Cornelius Fudge. Any 
idea WHY his last name is so delicious but his character isn't? I 
read this in the North Tower Column in Mugglenet.com and it was very 
convincing, to me at least. The links to the related essays are:

"Uncovering Severus Snape: Patterns and Subtle Repetition" 
<http://www.mugglenet.com/editorials/editorials/edit-cindy1.shtml>

"The Missing Death Eater" 
<http://www.mugglenet.com/editorials/thenorthtower/nt15.shtml> 

These essays are amazing and I highly recommend them!

Another point I wanted to make is this:

I have seen HP fans deciding which character is a DE and who's not, 
mostly based on the Graveyard Scene in GoF. This is definitely a 
great incident to categorize characters that way, if not the best. I 
highly doubt that Voldemort was trying to fool his `true family' 
there, I think *what he says* can be taken at face value. I emphasize 
*what he says* because I don't think he necessarily revealed 
EVERYTHING there.

Now, I am not too certain just WHO is marked as Death Eater and who 
is not
 but I did some counting from the books just to amuse myself.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
1. Death Eaters from Graveyard: 16+
-- Wormtail, Avery, Lucius, Lestranges (2), "the next man", Macnair, 
Crabbe, Goyle, Nott, `6 missing lads VM talks about' --

 "Some of the Death Easters he passed in silence, but he paused 
before others, and spoke to them" (GoF, 564-565. UK)

----------------------------------------------------------------------
2. The Order of Phoenix: 22+
-- Moody, Dumbledore, Delalus Diggle, Marlene McKinnon, Frank & Alice 
Longbottom, Emmeline Vance, Remus Lupin, Benjy Fenwick, Edgar Bones, 
Sturgis Podmore, Caradoc Dearborn, Hagrid, Elphias Doge, Gideon & 
Fabian Prewett, Aberforth, Dorcas Meadowes, Sirius, James, Lily, 
Peter --

But Lupin says later on, when comforting Molly after her encounter 
with Boggarts, "Last time we were outnumbered twenty to one by Death 
Eaters and they were picking us off one by one
" (OoP, 161. UK)
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Following this logic, even if we assume the Order only had 22 members 
in it, this leads to the conclusion that there were more than 200 
Death Eaters working with Voldemort. But of course assuming there 
were more Order members and Moody stopped talking about them after 
James appeared on the picture -- this only means there were that many 
more DE's strutting around, eating, well, deaths. One may argue that 
it is only Lupin's words -- but I am inclined to take his words at 
face value here (not necessarily every word since ESE!Lupin theory 
has whipped me). I mean why wouldn't he? He is very smart, wouldn't 
have too much of hard time estimating the situation and all, and I 
don't see how he would endanger his ESE! position from divulging this 
common knowledge to Molly.

My point is (finally, you say! hehe) we just don't know how many 
silent former Death Eaters there are in WW. It is supported by my 
interpretation of canon, that there are bound to be many more Death 
Eaters than we expect, so brace yourself for more true-color-
revealing in the next books. I personally don't believe there are 
only "6 missing Death Eaters", there will be a lot more and 
practically anyone we know about can turn out to be one. Sure, in the 
Riddle Graveyard the text mentions some that VM just passed by, but 
do you really think all 200 of them were present there? I vaguely 
remember reading that the DE Circle had about 30 wizards, though not 
too sure of it. I don't think VM was lying there saying he is missing 
6 of his servants, I rather believe he lost track or he is quite a 
bit not there. After all, he had just acquired a body that he lived 
without for 13 years.

" `How many will be brave enough to return when they feel it?' he 
whispered, his gleaming 

 `And how many will be foolish enough to 
stay away?'" (GoF, Graveyard Scene)


Brenda