James the Berk?

[huntergreen_3]

No: HPFGUIDX 105530

Valky wrote: 

>>But James, who although he dislikes Snape, doesn't really want to
put the boys life at risk, would rather be content to, in his own
dunderhead act before he thinks way, demonstrate to Snape that Dark
magic is no substitute for the talent of a wizard like him.
So he uses silly hexes. The teasing and humiliation is a byline to
it all. (Well there's not enough canon to actually prove that yet,
but there will be.)
I am only pointing out that James drew the line at killing or
actually physically harming him but it is likely, very likely that
Snape didn't. Even after Snape did throw the curse that cut his
face, FROM BEHIND, he did not retaliate he humiliated.<<

HunterGreen:
But as Del said, their *intentions* were entirely different. Had they 
encountered each other in the hallway and the attack started from 
both ends at the same time, I could see your point, but that wasn't 
how it was at all. Snape was *alone* sitting outside going over his 
paper, (deep in thought, actually), when James and Sirius attack him 
*first*. Yes, Snape goes for his wand, but why shouldn't he? Look at 
the events leading up to the incident, Sirius is bored, and both him 
and James are in a playful mood. They are out to get some laughs, 
just injuring Snape wouldn't be as entertaining. Then their actions 
are certainly concerning, first of all its two against one, (more 
than that if you count they have Lupin and Peter in the sidelines 
which may or may not have meant something to Snape), then they 
*disarm* Snape, and put the impedimenta charm on him so he couldn't 
retrieve it. Thus Snape is disarmed, AND unable to move and that's 
when they really get into teasing him, when he can't possible 
retaliate. How is that any better than hitting someone from behind? 
IMO, hitting someone with a spell (in this case 'scourgify') when 
they can't possibly defend themself is the same as hitting them from 
behind. 
As for the 'deadliness' of Snape's spell, that's all conjecture. We 
don't know what it was. For all we know it was a particularily 
powerful missed Stupify or Expelliarmus, both which would have been 
acceptable in this situation. It *could* have been worse, but we 
don't know either way. However, just because Snape was trying to 
injur James and James wasn't trying to injur him, doesn't make James 
any better than Snape. James was with three friends, he certainly 
wasn't in any danger. Snape, on the other hand, (at least from his 
own perception), was. The nature of the hexes James and Sirius were 
using could have easily escalated to something dangerous (as they 
nearly do, when they use Scourgify and Snape begins choking).


>>Could James mind not be "This is teaching the coward some 
humility."<<

The person who is a coward in this situation, if anyone is, is James. 
He's the one attacking someone two against one, and attacking someone 
who is disarmed and unable to move.

>>Snape, after all, is part of a Slytherin Racial Prejudice Gang.<<

But is he at this point? We know a few of the death-eaters were older 
than Snape/James/Sirius/Peter/Lupin, perhaps his "gang" had already 
graduated. In any case, if he did have a gang, at this point none of 
them are around so it doesn't really matter.


Del continues:
> James was trying to *humiliate* Snape, not to necessarily hurt him.
> That's why he had him fall, he had him hung upside-down, and he had
> his mouth washed with soap. He was trying to make people *laugh* at
> Snape, not pity him.

Valky:
>>Snape was an EXAMPLE.
James and Sirius took the duty upon themselves in their stupid
teenage pride, in their overwrought cause to MAKE PEOPLE LAUGH AT
THE DARK ARTS AND RACIAL PREJUDICE!!!<<

HunterGreen:
I'm sorry, I just don't buy that. Maybe if Snape had been doing 
something at the time and they strode forward and made an example of 
his behavior, but at that moment Snape had been minding his own 
business, and wasn't bothering anyone. Sirius was *bored*, and James 
and him were trying to have a laugh. Yes, Snape was into the dark 
arts and was prejudice, but is putting him upside down and all that 
really going to change his attitude? Or, for that matter, change the 
attitude of any passing Slytherins? If anything, James and Sirius are 
setting rather poor examples of what 'non-pure-blood-fanatic-dark-
arts-loving' wizards are like. 

Del:
> Snape, on the other hand, was trying to win what he considered to
be a classic wizard duel. The best and fastest way is to disable your
> opponent, hence the physically harming curse.

Valky:
>>From Behind?
Still makes him less than noble in his intentions.<<

HunterGreen:
Who said he was trying to be noble? He was attacked, he attacked 
back, it seems rather straightforward to me.

Del:
> And I sure don't think that humiliating someone is *noble*.<

Valky:
>>Well I didn't really mean that *it* was noble.
I am sure I said that *James* was already noble.
The nobility is behind the action.
He *was* an 'idiot'.
With a belief in something noble and a noble heart and spirit.
He didn't have to change that.
Snape on the other hand.....?<<


HunterGreen:
Are you asking about 15-year-old Snape or adult Snape? Because adult 
Snape has shown himself to be noble on many occasions (including 
switching sides at great risk to himself). 
As for teenage Snape, well, considering that he came to school with 
all those ideas of dark magic, who's to say he wasn't raised that 
way? (and yes, I know Sirius was too, but Sirius was sorted into 
Gryffindor, and thus had someone else to make an impression on him). 
He was taught to behave that way, so hating muggle-borns was "right" 
and "noble" for him. Clearly, he had it the wrong way around, but who 
taught him the right way? I'd bet that whoever the Slytherin head of 
house was then certainly wasn't a good example, and Dumbledore not 
punishing Sirius seriously enough (in Snape's opionion) after the 
prank incident certainly didn't help. Also, if he really did have 
a "gang of Slytherins", those might have been his only friends (in 
the pensieve scene its noted that he's not very popular), so if the 
only students who were actually nice to him were other young death 
eaters, from his perception he could get the idea that that was the 
way to be. Hating muggle-borns, thus, was as noble to him as hating 
people who hated muggle-borns was to James.


-HunterGreen (AKA Rebecca)