Bertha, Florence, Frank, Alice, Bella, Rudolphus... and Snape?

[nkafkafi]

No: HPFGUIDX 105599

Florence is the girl mentioned by Bertha Jorkins in DD's Pensieve 
memory:

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GoF, Ch. 30:

Instantly, a figure rose out of it, a plump, scowling girl of about 
sixteen, who began to revolve slowly, with her feet still in the 
basin. She took no notice whatsoever of Harry or Professor 
Dumbledore. When she spoke, her voice echoed as Snape's had done, as 
though it were coming from the depths of the stone basin. "He put a 
hex on me, Professor Dumbledore, and I was only teasing him, sir, I 
only said I'd seen him kissing Florence behind the greenhouses last 
Thursday..."

"But why. Bertha," said Dumbledore sadly, looking up at the now 
silently revolving girl, "why did you have to follow him in the first 
place?"
------------------------------------

There are several pre-OotP Florence theories in the Hypothetic Ally 
section of the old HpfGU site:

http://www.hpfgu.org.uk/faq/hypotheticalley.html#florence

But I've noticed that The Usual Suspects are the Marauders and Snape. 
This doesn't seem likely to me. Bertha looks "about sixteen" in the 
Pensieve. Sirius says (GoF, 19) that Bertha was "a few years above 
James and me". Now, "a few years" is certainly more than one year, 
probably more than two. This puts the Marauders and Snape no more 
than 13 at the time of the celebrated kiss, possibly less. Of course, 
13 is not too early for kisses (I can testify that even 8 is not too 
early for kisses ;-) ) but it IS less likely. Besides, even a nosy 
girl like Bertha couldn't care less, at 16, about the love life of 
the 13 yrs old kids. JKR could have easily written Bertha at the same 
age with the Marauders, Lily and Snape, but she chose to make her 
several years older. This suggests to me that Florence and her 
mysteries kisser are also in Bertha's age group - 16 at the time. And 
16 is THE age for kissing behind greenhouses. So who are the 
contenders?

I'm not aware of any canon regarding the age of Alice and Frank 
Longbottom, but I somehow have the impression that they were a few 
years older than Lily and James. Neville and Harry are of the same 
age, and the Potters had Harry in a pretty young age. But unlike Lily 
and James, the Longbottoms were both aurors, which takes three years 
of hard training. So they most likely were older than the Potters. 
This puts them in approximately the same age group with Bertha and 
(assumingly) Florence. Did Frank Kissed Florence? If so, why did he 
hex Bertha? Was he afraid of Alice?

Next. Here is what Sirius had to say about Snape's gang of Slytherins:
-------------------------------------------------
(GoF, Ch. 27):
"Snape knew more curses when he arrived at school than half the kids 
in seventh year, and he was part of a gang of Slytherins who nearly 
all turned out to be Death Eaters."

Sirius held up his fingers and began ticking off names.

"Rosier and Wilkes - they were both killed by Aurors the year before 
Voldemort fell. The Lestranges - they're a married couple - they're 
in Azkaban. Avery - from what I've heard he wormed his way out of 
trouble by saying he'd been acting under the Imperius Curse - he's 
still at large.
--------------------------------------------------

The "gang" word suggests they were all in the same year, the year of 
Snape, Lily and the Marauders. But again, I have the impression that 
Bella, at least, is older than Sirius. Why? Lets see. Andromeda Black 
was "Sirius' favorite cousin" and she's the mother of Tonks, who is 
at least 20 (again, auror training takes 3 years), so Andromeda is 
probably slightly older than James and Lily. Bella is to the left 
from her sister Andromeda in the Black family tree. I don't know 
anything about traditional family trees, but doesn't this imply that 
she's older than Andromeda? (BTW, this puts Narcissa, who is to the 
right from Andromeda in the tree, as the youngest of the three 
sisters, about the same age with the Marauders. Hmm). Also, in 
Snape's Pensive memory Harry doesn't recognize Bellatrix in the OWL 
exam, nor does any of the "gang" come to help Snape outside when he 
is bullied by James. So perhaps Snape was the young kid in an older 
gang because he was so good with the Dark Arts? It is likely (though 
not necessary) that Rudolphus was not much younger than his future 
wife.

Now the options are beginning to look really interesting. Did 
Rudolphus kiss Florence? He's just the type to hex Bertha. And if 
Bertha had spread the kiss story, I wouldn't bet on Florence's 
chances against Bella. Or was it Avery who kissed Florence? Or Rosier 
or Wilkes? Or was it Bella (naah, just kidding... it IS in character 
but Bertha specifically said "he"). And don't forget Frank and Alice. 
We have here two future married couples, one of which tortured the 
second to insanity. The whole Longbottoms affair starts looking like 
a school buddies reunion. Were old personal grudges instrumental as 
well as tactical considerations and plain sadism? And remember: 
Rosier and Wilkes were killed by aurors, a year before the fall of 
LV. Which aurors? We know that Moody was involved in Evan Rosier's 
last battle. Rosier took out a chunk out of Moody's nose, but it 
never says that Moody was the one who actually killed him, and about 
Wilkes' death we know nothing. It could easily be Frank, or Alice, 
who killed them. Add revenge to the list of optional motives.

The way I read the Pensieve account, it is not the kiss that's 
important, and maybe not even the hex. DD says sadly: "but why, why 
did you have to follow him in the first place". With interesting 
wording by JKR, Harry notices immediately after that how old and 
frail DD is. It seems that this petty incident set in motion some 
important and very grave development, such as the attack on the 
Longbottoms and its consequences. But where is Florence today? And 
does Snape have also a part in this sad story, not because he kissed 
Florence (which I don't believe; he was then 13 at most) but because 
he was a member of this "gang"? Does anybody have the feeling that 
we're missing several hundred pages of back story here?

Speculations will be appreciated,

Neri