How did Sirius lure Severus into the Willow? (was: James the Berk?)

[Brenda M.]

No: HPFGUIDX 105829

>>> I wrote before:
> > DD perhaps told Snape of the "benefits" he would 
> > get from keeping his mouth (or fingers) shut about Lupin. Maybe 
some HPFG members are right in that Snape is in fact Vampire!Snape -- 
and DD knows it, and strikes a deal with Snape (trying NOT to use the 
> > word 'blackmail' but in a nut shell, it was)
> > Or Snape could have been another orphan staying at Hogwarts 
> > throughout the summer (like Tom Riddle) and DD was about to take 
this away from him if Snape didn't listen to him.
> > 
> Kneasy wrote:
> Oh, come now! No wishful thinking, please!
> At least I am wondering how DD orchestrated a cover-up (shown as 
such in canon - DD forbade Snape ever to mention it) of an event also 
shown in canon as a major part of the back-story.
> Inventing non-canon situations so that the story turns out the way 
you want it to just won't do, I'm afraid. <<<


Bren now:

WHAT wishful thinking??  I don't *hope* Snape is a vampire, I don't 
really believe in it, and even if he was I couldn't care less.  I was 
just trying to illustrate my point that DD BLACKMAILED Snape somehow 
to keep him quiet.  THAT was my point.  Blackmailing.  And I was 
merely thinking of a few possiblities as to HOW DD accomplished 
this.  Yes, I did "invent non-canon situations" but then how much 
CANON do we have on this now to rely on it?  We don't have much, 
that's why we started speculating on this to begin with.  And it 
doesn't hurt to suggest some theories, that is why this board exists 
anyways.  And no, this isn't what I want either, like I said, I 
couldn't care less.

If you could come up with a much better and logical situation 
supported by canon then I'd love to hear it (and apologize for 
snapping at you), really.


> Kneasy:
> What second chance? DD *needs* Snape, he's the one, perhaps
> the only one that can do what DD needs done for the Order.
> And I didn't say that Snape doesn't trust DD - I asked how
> could he after the cover-up at Shrieking Shack I. "What happened
> to make Snape trust DD after that?" - that's my question.

Bren now:

It is true that DD relys on Snape much, but OoP says that Dumbledore 
had a "number of useful spies".  Surely this means Snape wasn't the 
only one.  I would like to believe that DD has other many powerful 
wizards on his side who are much older, wiser and powerful than 
Snape -- after all, his "partner" is Nicholas Flamel, the 665+ year-
old Alchemist.

And didn't DD's Pensieve show us that Snape "rejoined" their side 
before VM's downfall?  And that he gives second chance to others 
(can't remember who said it, either Fudge or Moody...)


>>> Brenda earlier: I have always regarded Dumbledore as kind 
of "divine character" in Potterverse. A mortal character (with the 
human mischievious trait) who resembles God. He is, after all, 
(appears to be) omniscient and omnipotent, loving/caring/forgiving, 
eccentric, but expresses his wrath of madness towards those who have 
been given enough chances. <<<
>>> Kneasy responded:
> Not I. He's shown too much fallibility to be omniscient and 
omnipotent. Quirrell, Tom's Diary, the Basilisk, Crouch!Moody, the 
failure of the Occlumency lessons, the inability to control or 
neutralise Umbridge; the list is long and totally unbelievable for 
someone omniscient and omnipotent. Unless of course, you think it was 
all deliberate. Which would mean that he was quite happy for a half-
trained student to face the second-most-powerful wizard in the world 
on totally unequal terms. <<<


Brenda: Perhaps I should've been more clear. I didn't mean that DD 
was God in Potterverse, I meant to say he resembles God in many ways, 
much more than other characters in Potterverse (that we know of). The 
only fallibility I see in DD was trusting Crouch!Moody. This made me 
really afraid of Barty Jr actually and I wondered if he was more 
powerful than DD (but he did have a help of that magical eye.)

DD strikes me as a character who wouldn't cross his (political) 
boundaries -- Fudge has more political powers than DD, and if 
Umbridge was sent on the Ministry' behalf to interfere with Hogwarts' 
business then DD couldn't do much, IMO.  I do think most of his 
actions were deliberate, and I don't think he was HAPPY in sending 
Trio in dangers, he probably thought was *necessary*.  The Trio 
learned loads of lessons from those incidents anyways.  DD wanted to 
them to deal with dangers themselves for most part, but he came to 
rescue when it became too much for them.  It's not fair of course, 
but then war situation is never fair.  And if one was to assume that 
DD pretty much knows the outcome of this war (time-travelling theory 
kicks in), then it makes sense, IMHO.

Brenda, anxiously waiting for Kneasy's rebuttal...