Prefects and points

[Arya]

No: HPFGUIDX 106055


Del wrote:
> But Ron is like most of us : not overly intelligent, not overly
> studious, not overly lucky, and not the hero of the game. *But* he
> has ambition, he *wants* to become someone, to prove himself, just
> like most of us. So if he turned out to be there just for fun, the
> message I would get out of it all would be : "Sorry, if you're not >
> born special, you will never become so. You'll always be just a joke.
> You'll never be the hero of anything. It's not even worth trying,
> because it won't happen." And I just happen to HATE that sort of
> message. It would right away turn me off HP (both the books and the
> character).

Arya answered :
> But, but, but....if Ron doesn't remain just "normal" and he has to
> change and become more than "comic relief" then doesn't that say that
> the normal guy is nothing? There's an awful lot to be said for the
> average guy and it does take a certain type of courage to be content
> with being just who you are (as opposed to trying to be more and
> appear more in the eyes of others).

Del replies :
But I'm NOT saying that Ron wants to appear more than he is. I'm
saying that Ron IS more than he appears.

At the end of PS/SS, DD tells something to Harry that has been used in
this group over and over again : It's not our abilities that determine
who we are, but our choices (or something like that).
-----------------
Arya now:  
But, we also learn that we do not always have choices.  Look at the
prophecy--have is fated to walk a very narrow line that could very
well end in his death.  Does he have a choice in that?  No--he has a
choice in *accepting* his fate and *that* will most certainly
determine his ability to prepare to *survive* his fate.  Sure there
are choices everyone gets to make in their life but we do not
necessarily get to decided when and where we have choices to choose from.
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Del wrote:
Ron made *amazing* choices for someone normal. He repeatedly chose to
face mortal danger. He repeatedly chose to go right along Harry in
dangerous endeavours. He constantly supported Harry through whatever
Harry had to go through (except in one single time and he repented
from it). He shares everything he has with Harry (most notably his
family) without ever asking anything in return. In fact, when asked to
give Ron's most defining quality, people will most often say that he's
an amazing friend. But that's because he's put Harry's interests
before his own over and over again.
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Arya now:
I'm not entirely convinced this all conscious to Ron.  I think Harry
being his friend *is* Ron's interest and so, that's what prompts him
to be there for Harry.  Ron's choice, I think, is yet to come in
choosing to either stick it out even more so with Harry (the right
choice) or to fall prey some inner jealousy or wish to do his own
thing for himself (the easy one by comparison).  
---------------

Del wrote:
So Ron makes all these amazing choices, but in the end he will still
be someone average, someone normal ? While of course, in the meantime,
Harry will have gone from hero to super-hero, because of his own
choices ? Sorry, I call that unfair.
-------
Arya now:
Well, unfortunately for all of us, life simply is not fair.  JKR's
little world is no exception.  Just ask Harry.  Of all the things in
Ron's life, if he survives the war as Harry's best friend, he would be
lucky to just alive.
----------
Del wrote:
If DD (JKR) meant to say that it's not his abilities that will define
*Harry* but his choices, then he (she) should not have made such a
general statement. 
------
Arya now:
Again, I don't think the "choices" statement means the same thing you do.
--------

Del wrote:
If on the other hand, she truly meant it, then Ron
should end up amazing, because he's made amazing choices. In fact, I
believe he's *already* amazing, because those choices have already
affected him for the better, but somehow JKR isn't showing us that.
She keeps insisting on how common he is, on how laughable he is, on
all his failings, she makes him look like a stupid dork who has never
done anything exceptional in his life. But he's simply not that.
-------
Arya now:  
You're not the only one who believe this, but tehre are also plenty of
us, and possibly even JKR, who think Ron really may be just this.  End
of story.  He's the exxageration of "ordinary". 
-------


Del wrote:
Arya 1st wrote :
> It's not easy to just be average and be happy and happy enough to
> joke around and to in the shadow of Harry (and even Hermione).

Del replies :
No, it's not easy, especially when you took a very active and equal
part in what made Harry and Hermione shine !
---------
Arya now:
I disagree.  I think Harry and Hermione would shine on their own. 
They may be better with Ron but neither is dependent on him for being
who they are.  
--------

Arya 1st wrote :
> So I think Ron's got his cross to bear (this shadow) and he doesn't
> NEED to rise up and shine in a bright and glorious way so that the
> last book has to be called "Harry, Ron and Hermione: The Most Equal
> of Friends". All Ron's need to do is endure to be there at Harry's
> side and *that* will make him a hero in his own right.

Del replies :
Oh, because Harry, Ron and Hermione are *not* equal ?? I guess I'm
right then : JKR lied to us through DD, and it's *not* our choices who
define who we are, it's what we were born. Wonderful. Not.
--------------
Arya now:
Nope.  IMO, I do not think the Trio is equal.  Sorry.  I think it's
Harry, then Hermione, and then Ron.  

but that doesn't mean one is better than the other as a person. 
People are not judged comparitively in the end; it's more like Danish
judging (from 4H), where each individual is judged on their own unique
circumstances and individual acheivements.  
--------------


Arya 1st wrote :
> We all have paths, we all have some purpose--not everyone is meant to
> walk in front and lead--someone has to walk behind and follow.

Del replies :
I know we keep talking about how Ron and Hermione follow Harry, but
it's a wrong choice of word : Harry, Ron and Hermione work as
partners, they work side-by-side, it's not Harry in the front and Ron
and Hermione in the back. 
-----------
Arya now:  
And I think it often is.  Alhtough, quite often, I see Hermione trying
to lead, too.  And she also points out the way for Harry.  
--------

Del wrote:
Just because Harry always end up fighting LV
alone in the end because of convenient obstacles that block his
friends on the way, doesn't mean they ever *intend* things to be that
way. If they could, Ron and Hermione would always be right next to
Harry any time he faces danger. Ron would gladly take an equal share
of the burden and the danger if he could. His *choices* are just as
brave as Harry's, and his personality is just as noble as Harry's. He
*is* Harry's equal in character. But JKR just doesn't show that.
----------
Arya now: 
Well, as the HP universe is limited to what JKR invents and shows,
then you can't rally for equality of one person like they are a race
oppressed.  JKR *chooses* for Harry to be The One and The One Alone
who has to face *his* fate.  

I think, sometimes people identify with someone other than Harry (a
foreign concept to me until I came into fandom years ago) and then try
to be an advocate for that character in a bid for them to be regarded
as an unsung hero.  That's great if one can feel better about
themselves through the books but sometimes, I think it reaches a point
where readers are left over-championing someone who just isn't meant
to be a champion.  

As it is, the only one you can hang your hopes on and the one you
should be rooting for as he is the main dude of the books (Remember
Harry?  The kid with the scar?) is Harry Potter. The rest of them are
all supporting chracters.  Harry is the champion of the books; the
hero and the one for whom we are meant to feel empathy for and to root
for.  Ron, in all his ordinaryness, may just be a plot to show how
wonderful a friend *Harry* is by Harry's willingness to go into the
bowels of the earth to slay a Basilisk for this ordinary's friend
sister.  Sorry, the plot does not *need* to show the triumph of Ron to
be good fiction; it needs to show the trials (and fate) of Harry.
---------- 


Arya 1st wrote :
> There *is* heroism in accepting the simple path before you and not
> forsaking it for the pursuit of one's own glory.

Del replies :
Yo, one *simple* path indeed it is, to brave danger and death right
alongside Harry !!
And I wasn't talking about Ron pursuing his own glory. I was talking
about his true personality finally shining through : brave, noble,
tenacious, generous. Everyone keeps talking about how Harry is all of
that and more, but I say that Ron is no less either.
-----------
Arya now:
But, um, he is.  Ron *is* less.  Otherwise the books would be about
him.  Sure he's no less a person (fictional as he is) but he *IS* less
of a character.  Perspective, perspective, perspective!!
-----------

Arya 1st wrote :
> Harry *needs* his friends and I can see Ron having a test of his
> character in having to decided to remain at Harry's side and in his
> shadow versus pursuing the fame that Harry has which he envies so.

Del replies :
First, as I said, I wasn't talking about Ron going after his own
glory. just about his brightness inside finally showing through.
And second : Harry doesn't own Ron. If Ron did indeed decide to leave
Harry to pursue his own dreams, it would be his most basic right. It
would in no way be a test of his character, because there would be no
failing option. It would be no treason or abandonment of Harry.
Whether Ron would choose to stay with Harry or to leave him would be
equally good and right. If Ron decided to stay with Harry, it would be
a sign of true charity : putting another's needs before his own. And
Ron has already shown signs that he does indeed possess quite large
amounts of that most remarkable quality.

Ron *is* great, because he, the ordinary boy, made extraordinary
decisions. Why does JKR hide that fact ?
--------------
Arya now:
If you admit she is "hiding" it, then perhaps it's that it just isn't
meant to be there???   They're books.  They're books about Harry.  Ron
is Harry's best friend.  See how Ron is removed from the center of it
all?  I think sometimes the characters need to be put back *into* the
books, not dragged out into the harsh light of reality, and then,
looking at the proverbial forest through the trees (or overall story
through the tales), we readers need to regain some perspective.  

Arya