Dobby redux - Freeing Elves

[Steve]

No: HPFGUIDX 106280

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "fiondavhar" <enigma_only at h...>
wrote:
> 
> ...edited...
> > 
> > Aggie:
> 
> > Malfoy's release of Dobby WAS unintentional but this does not seem
> > to matter to house elves.  In OotP when Hermione was knitting 
> > furiously all the hats and scarves to free the elves, they refused
> > to clean Griffindor common room in case they accidently picked up 
> > the article of clothing and *unintentionally* freed themselves.  
> > If it works one  way round surely it'll work the other.
> 
> Bonny:
> 
> Atually, they refuse to clean Gryffindor house because they find the 
> hats insulting, not because they are afraid of being freed.
> 
> ...edited...
> 
> Besides, Mrs. Weasley wanted a house-elf to do the laundry - it is 
> specifically noted in CoS - and if a house elf could be freed simply 
> by being handed a garment, they certainly would not be able to do 
> laundry. I believe there has to be intent.
>  
> ...edited... 
> 
> Bonny:


Asian_lovr2:

I don't think intent is the key to freeing house-elves; authority is
the key. Malfoy didn't intend to free Dobby but he did. Hermione
intended to free the Hogwarts house-elves but she can't. Why? Because
she doesn't have the authority.

To say that Hermione can free house-elves is equivalent to saying that
I can walk into a random office building and start firing people. But,
of course, I can't. True I can say they are 'fired', but that doesn't
make them 'fired'. 


Illustration-

Draco wants Dobby to clean his socks (Draco's socks). 

Draco hands Dobby a pair of sock and says 'clean these'. Dobby is
free, even though Draco has no intent to free Dobby, he has given his
elf clothes.

Draco throws his socks on the floor and says to Dobby, 'clean these'.
Draco has with full intent given the elf socks, but the socks did not
pass DIRECTLY from Master to servant. Consequently, Dobby is not freed.


Conclusion-

Elves touching clothes is irrelevant. (Moody gave Dobby Robes to
clean, but Dobby wasn't fired; both contact with and intent to give.)

The Master's intent is irrelevant. (Lucius freed Dobby unintentionally.)

What is important is that clothes are passed directly from a person
with authority to the elf. (His MASTER, Lucius, inadvertently but
DIRECTLY passed a sock to Dobby thereby freeing him.)


The grey area-

What if Draco pointed at a pile of old clothes and said to Dobby (or
any of his house-elves), 'you can have those'. 

There is a full unquestionable intent to give clothes to the elf.
There is a full intent, both direct and implied, that the possession
and ownership of the clothes is being transferred, but the clothes do
not pass directly from the hand of the Master to the hand of the Servant.

Now what? 

Best guess - we have a clear intent to 'give', literally give, clothes
to an elf by someone with authority, but the outcome hinges on the
elves actions. If the elf accepts the clothes, he is free, if he
refuses, then he is not. 

In this scenerio, I operate under the assumption that an offer was
made, not that an order was given. That leaves the elf with choice. 


Alternate Scenerio-

If Draco pointed at pile of clothes and said, 'I order you to take
those clothes for yourself', I think the elf would have been freed.
But there is still a small element of grey in this particular version
since the clothes don't come from the Master's hand; none the less,
the Master's intent seems clear. 

Also, given that it is a direct order from someone with authority, I
don't see how the elf can disobey.


Hermione-
How misguide is SHE! Would it killer to actually research house-elves
and study them a little closer? Could she possibly take the time to
ask them what they want and need? Sorry, Hermione but this was not
your finest hour.

Just a thought.

Steve/asian_lovr2