Ginny and the entrancing Veil

[annunathradien]

No: HPFGUIDX 107595

> dcgmck:
> 
> Hypothesis:  Ginny's possession by the young Tom Riddle might well 
> have tainted her psyche if not her conscious memory with Riddle's 
> witnessing of Moaning Myrtle's death.  Do you think he actually 
> witnessed MM's death or just instigated it by setting the basilisk 
> loose?  Again, lacking canonical evidence one way or the other...
 

> Cory:
> 
> I don't know whether young TR saw MM's death or not, but for 
purposes 
> of your argument, I would argue that it does not matter.
> 
> The person who possessed Ginny (if "person" is the right word), was 
> not just the 16-year-old Riddle.  It was the memory of Riddle's 16-
> year-old self, but it was also a person that knew Riddle / 
> Voldemort's future, including the killing of Harry's parents and 
his 
> demise by Harry.  

This might be going off on a totally baseless tangent, but when Harry 
*saw* Arthur's attack in OOTP, it was written as if Harry *were* the 
snake.  As if he were in it's mind.  If I'm not mistaken, this was 
explained because Voldemort had been possessing the snake at the 
time, which is why Harry saw himself as the snake (his connection to 
Voldemort = seeing things through the snake's eyes just like V).  If 
Riddle/Voldemort controlled the Basilisk in a similar way through 
Ginny, BookSpirit!Riddle wouldn't have only been able to see 
everything the Basilisk saw, but Ginny would have seen it too.  In 
theory.

Ginny claims to not remember anything of the times she was possessed, 
but perhaps she carries those memories subconsciously.  This could be 
why the Dementors seem to effect her slightly more considerably than 
the average person (POA train car scene.  Ginny was "shaking like 
mad", per Ron's words, if I'm not mistaken).  Worst case scenario... 
Spirit!Riddle left some of himself in her.  Like a disturbing 
gestating egg, waiting to hatch.  It might be an intriguing 
storyline, but there's no evidence of it to date.  

Unless one wants to crazy-speculate about alterior motives in Ginny's 
adamance Voldemort wasn't possessing Harry in OOTP.  Harry always 
remembered what happened to him after his *connections* with 
Voldemort, including the one clearly attempted possession at the end 
of OOTP, so his situation isn't similar to Ginny's.... or is it?   
Was this just illustrating Harry's difference from an run-of-the-mill 
person possessed like Ginny (who didn't have a pre-existant 
connection to Voldemort)?  Or was it to remind us Ginny's possession 
and this supposed difference to Harry's?  Is it *really* different?  
Could Ginny be lying about the nature of her Riddle possession?  
Why?  Could Riddle still be effecting her?  Not unlike the Diary, a 
small piece of Riddle still living in a subject, in this case, a 
living subject (aforementioned spec:  'A disturbing gestating egg')?  
It's insane, but I suppose I'm still keeping it amongst the 
possibilities, allbeit the group of more implausible ones.

> Cory again:
> 
> Perhaps, although this assumes that being entranced by the veil and 
> seeing the thestrals are triggered by *exactly* the same thing, 
which 
> is not necessarily true.  We know that seeing the thestrals is 
> triggered by *seeing* death.  It is possible that entrancement by 
the 
> veil results from something else relating to death, other than 
> physically seeing it.

I agree.  It is made clear Riddle was at least capable of murder even 
at that young age, but he (through Ginny) never actually killed 
anyone during COS even if the intent was there.  I'm also not so 
convinced BookSpirit!Riddle implanted memories in Ginny or she 
somehow *saw* the Basilisk's/Riddle's old memories or whatnot.  I 
would believe, however, through the possession, Ginny *feeling* what 
Riddle felt.  That bloodlust, the capacity to murder but not the 
actual witnessing of murder, hence no memory of death.  Which could 
explain why Ginny can't see Thestrals but is entranced by the Death 
Veil.  It's possible the Veil attracts those who have witnessed 
death, but also those who have (acutely?) felt the desire to cause 
death?  Which could be why Harry, of all of them, was particularly 
attracted to the Veil.  Harry not only saw death in a big way in GOF, 
but Harry has also wanted to kill.  He *wanted* to kill Sirius in POA 
believing he betrayed his parents.  We see this desire to kill again 
when he chased down Bellatrix.

Of course, Ginny being entranced by the Veil could simply be 
explained because she was so close to death herself in COS.