Ginny and the entrancing Veil

[Steve]

No: HPFGUIDX 107374

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "ohneill_2001"
<ohneill_2001 at y...> wrote:
> dcgmck wrote:
> > 
> > Hypothesis:  Ginny's possession by the young Tom Riddle might well 
> > have tainted her psyche if not her conscious memory with Riddle's 
> > witnessing of Moaning Myrtle's death.  Do you think he actually 
> > witnessed MM's death ...

 
> Now Cory:
> 
> I don't know whether young TR saw MM's death or not, but for 
> purposes of your argument, I would argue that it does not matter.
> 

Asian_lovr2:

Yes, like Cory, I'm confused. Why is it specifically Moaning Myrtle's
death that is important? 

I'm not against Ginny's psyche being tainted by her possession by Tom
Riddle. I think that's a clever idea and very possible. I've had
several similar ideas pass through my own mind. For example, I thought
it would be cool if Harry was staying at Ginny's (the Weasley's)
house, took a walk in the garden, and found Ginny talking to a garden
snake. Just a little something left over from she was possessed. I'm
not saying I believe that will happen, just thought it was a cool idea
when it came to me. 

So, my main point is the significants of Moaning Myrtle.


> The person who possessed Ginny ..., was not just the 16-year-old 
> Riddle.  It was the memory of Riddle's 16-year-old self, but it was
> also a person that knew Riddle/Voldemort's future, including the 
> killing of Harry's parents and his demise by Harry.  Thus, if we are
> theorizing that Ginny was mesmerized by the veil because of her 
> possession by Riddle, it should not matter whether Riddle saw MM's 
> death.  She could have just as easily have been tainted by the 
> memory of the countless other deaths that Riddle/Voldemort caused 
> throughout his life.
> 
> --Cory

Asian_lovr2:

Yes, up to a point. Let's be sure we understand that the nearly
revived memory of Diary!Tom Riddle was not in any kind of contact with
the real Voldemort. Voldemort did not witness what happened in the
Chamber of Secrets, and does not share knowledge with Diary!Tom beyond
his 16th year and what was written in the diary. 

Diary!Tom did have knowledge of events that occured after his 16th
year, but only to the extent that people wrote in the diary and told
him about those events. 

As far as being tainted by "...the countless other deaths that
Riddle/Voldemort caused throughout his life", only those deaths that
Diary!Tom had personal knowledge of would count. Death commited by
Voldemort after Riddle's 16th year would all be second hand knowledge,
NOT first hand experience, to Diary!Tom. 

However, the original opening of The Chamber seems to have occurred in
Tom's 15th year. In summer of his 16th year he killed his father and
grandparents, then return to Hogwarts where he finished his Diary
charm. So, Tom has experienced death first hand.

Since we don't actually know Tom's birthday, saying when he was 15 or
16 is difficult. However, if he is like a majority of students, his
age changed while he was in school. So the first Chamber of Secrets
was likely his 15th/16th year, and the death of his parents was likely
his 16th/17th year which is also the time when he created the Diary.

That techincal point aside, Diary!Tom most likely did have first hand
knowledge of death; Moaning Myrtle, his father, and his grandparents.

However, I don't think it is necessary for Tom Riddle to have had
first hand experience with death for Ginny to be drawn to The Veil.
Ginny was a hair's breadth from death herself.

When Harry finally destroyed Diary!Tom, Tom was virtually solid, which
means that Ginny had not more than a drop of life left in her.
Certainly, she was close enough to have internally processed death. 

As a side note: although the book implies that Ginny can't see the
Thestrals, it doesn't flat out say it, and I think rather tactfully
avoids the issue. The primary hint that Ginny can't see them, is the
fact that she waits for Luna to help her mount the Thestral. But I
personally don't know if she can't see them, or if she is just waiting
for a definitive course of action to be decided. Either way, that's a
slightly unrelated point to the main topic here.

To the central point, I like the idea of a bit of residual Diary!Tom
staying in Ginny, and can see many possible story lines developing
from it.

Just a few thoughts.

Steve/asian_lovr2