Snape's part in death of Sirius

[cubfanbudwoman]

No: HPFGUIDX 108003

Potioncat:
> To be honest, I didn't go upthread to review.  As it is, my kids 
> call me a HarryPotterHead and my husband thinks I have a cyber-
> boyfriend. (OK, men, which one of you is to be named in the suit?)


SSSusan:
Whoa!  Me, too!  I wonder how many of us are in this position??  
["Let's see, can I squeeze in a speed read of 25 posts here before 
anyone notices I've left the room again??"]


Potioncat provided some canon snippets:
> But, lets look at canon....not a timeline.  OoP, chapter 37 p830 
> (US)"... He, like you attempted to contact Sirius at once.  I 
> should explain that members of the Order of the Phoenix have more 
> reliable methods of communicating than the fire in Dolores 
> Umbridge's office.  Professor Snape found that Sirius was alive and 
> safe in Grimmauld Place."
> 
> "When, however, you did not return from your trip into the forest 
> with Dolores Umbridge, Professor Snape grew worried that you still 
> believed Sirius to be a captive of Lord Voldermort's.  He alerted 
> certain Order members at once."
> 
> We don't know when this is.  He contacts Grimmauld Place the first 
> time moments after leaving Umbridge's office.("at once")  We do not 
> know when he found out Potter, Umbridge and Granger had gone into 
> the forest and not returned.  Did he find out, wait a little then 
> get worried? Or did he find out at one time that Harry had gone 
> into the forest and had not returned? Canon does not tell us. But 
> again we're told he contacted HQ "at once".
>
> " ...A Moody, N Tonks, K Shackelbolt and R Lupin were at 
> headquarters when he made contact. All agreed to go to your aid at 
> once.  Professor Snape requested that Sirius remain behind, as he 
> needed somebody to remain at headquarters to tell me what had 
> happened, for I was due there at any moment.  In the meantime he, 
> Professor Snape, intended to search the forest for you."


SSSusan:
We can argue 'til we're blue in the face about whether Snape behaved 
responsibly, and I don't think anyone but JKR [as usual] really knows 
with absolute certainty.  *Personally* when I read these bits of OotP 
originally, I was very conscious of DD saying all these "at onces" 
and felt that it was quite intentional, as if he was trying gently 
but very firmly to get it to sink in to Harry that he, DD, believed 
Snape had truly acted with all reasonableness, without undue delay.  

Again, we can argue about whether DD is being schnookered by Snape, 
but *if* we accept that DD trusts Snape with reason, as oh-so-
gullible-I do, then I think it's understandable why some of us took 
it to heart when DD said, in so many words, that Snape really DID do 
all he could.  (Timeline or no timeline.)


Potioncat again:
> Somehow, Snape knows that DD is due "any moment" at Grimmauld 
> Place.  Did he talk to DD somewhere between calls to HQ?  Is it a 
> scheduled event? Did KS tell him during this conversation?  Canon 
> doesn't say. He requests that Black stay behind for those few 
> moments to brief DD.  And, while Black was to wait for DD, Snape 
> was going to search the forest.  

 
SSSusan:
Again, I took Snape's request for Sirius to remain at GP as a being a 
truly benevolent action [did I just say "truly benevolent" 
and "Snape" in the same sentence?!?].  I did NOT read it as his 
*goading* Sirius, saying it because he knew if he said it out loud 
Sirius would do just the opposite.  Rather, I interpreted it that 
Snape was trying to get Sirius to understand *why* he needed to stay 
put--because DD would need him.  

Once again, HPfGUers may just disagree on Snape's motivations here, 
and I don't think we can yet know who's right.


Potioncat:
> Now, if all this is to make or refute the claim that Snape is the 
> one responsible for Black's death.  I don't buy it.  I think that 
> not having an Order Member at HQ waiting for DD, caused a delay in 
> DD's arrival at the DoM and also contributed to loss of life.  
> 
> But I don't see the use in naming one person as being at fault. 
> Mistakes were made by several people across a span of time.  It's a 
> war. People die. 


SSSusan:
I agree wholeheartedly, Potioncat.  BELLATRIX LESTRANGE is the one 
who holds the blame for Sirius' death.  Second in line, *I* would 
say, is Sirius himself for: 1) disregarding Snape's 
instruction/suggestion/request [take your pick]; and 2) *possibly* 
underestimating Bellatrix in the DoM.  IMO, the other folks, the 
other bits & pieces of what happened, were unfortunate elements of 
circumstance that came together to contribute to the death and to 
make *lots* of people either feel bad or look bad.  DD takes some 
blame; Harry didn't use Sirius' mirror and feels terrible guilt; 
Snape looked suspicious to some because of the amount of time which 
seemed to pass.  Were any of those three RESPONSIBLE for Sirius' 
death?  Not in my mind, no.  

Siriusly Snapey Susan