Cheering on Harry

[delwynmarch]

No: HPFGUIDX 100841

Darrin wrote:
> I'm assuming the Slyths either agree with Draco or are too cowed by 
> him to stand up. Either way, they are the ones that need to show it.
> 
> So they agree or are cowards. Forgive me if I don't cheer.

Del replies :
I see we have a different take on trust. I first believe in people,
and then stop when they prove untrustworthy. You first want the
Slytherins to prove trustworthy before you trust them. Why not, it's
your right, but it makes cooperation between the Houses harder.
Oh, and maybe they don't *care*, all those silent Slytherins ? They
already know that they have a bad reputation no matter what, so maybe
they don't care anymore.

Darrin wrote :
> And if they do need that? Slytherins won the House Cup for years 
> before Harry showed up and they won Quidditch a bunch too. You can't 
> say that House Slytherin gets no success at Hogwarts.

Del replies :
Academic and sports success, quite logical, for an ambitious House.
But they are hated for those successes.

Darrin wrote :
> The very fact that there IS still a House Slytherin speaks volumes. 
> Unless there is some magical binding contract that prevents old 
> Sal's line from being kicked out on their butts, one would think 
> that there would be massive temptation to just dissolve the house 
> and put the kids somewhere else.

Del replies :
I agree. I've been wondering about that. And the most logical
conclusion is that Slytherin House is NOT a bad House. Something went
wrong somewhere.

Darrin wrote :
> And these are not refugees who haven't been accepted by anyone else. 
> Remember, these are the children of priviledge. Most of them, if not 
> all of them (besides V-Mort) are pureblood, which means they are 
> upper-crust in many eyes. 
> 
> The Slyths are the jocks, prom queens, rich kids, trend-setters, 
> arbiters of status and harpies. They are NOT the Square Pegs, nerds,  
> geeks, goths, skateboarders, punks, rebels, or any other picked on 
> group in school. 

Del replies :
That's a bit of speculation. Being pureblood doesn't guarantee status
: just look at the Weasleys.
And nowhere do we see the Slytherins being popular and upper-crust.
Just because Draco is rich and famous doesn't mean his whole House is.
You're extrapolating with very little basis.

Darrin wrote :
> Let's go to real life for a minute. Picture a kid who is poor, or 
> maybe struggling with his or her sexuality, or not as smart, or 
> smart but not athletic, or with a single parent, or with a stutter.
> 
> Do you REALLY believe that child is welcome among people like the 
> Slytherins you've seen?

Del replies :
For that matter, that kid wouldn't be nicely treated by the
Gryffindors either. Look at Neville. Another Pureblood by the way.

Darrin wrote :
> So, let us not blame Dumbledore for failing to overcome the 
> maliciousness of parents like Lucius Malfoy and the rest of the DE 
> dads. 
> 
> Any teacher will tell you that you can only go so far.

Del replies :
I don't think it helps to have someone like Snape as Head of House
either...


I, Del, said :
> > Yep, Harry met people, lucky for him. Once again, it all comes 
> > down to luck. Harry was lucky to meet the right people at the 
> > right time in order to get a vague idea that he didn't want to be 
> > in Slytherin.

Darrin replied :
> You said it. I didn't. "The right people."
> 
> Harry did meet the right people, the non-Slyths. Good thing for us, 
> or else there might not be a series of books.

Del replies :
As a matter of fact, it could be argued that the single person who
most influenced Harry as to his choice of House was... Draco Malfoy.
Harry wished to be with Ron, he wished to avoid Hermione if possible,
but he sure didn't want to be with Draco. And when his turn came to be
sorted, he already knew that Hermione was in Gryffindor and Draco in
Slytherin, but not that Ron would end up in Gryffindor. Hence his
*only* desire : not to be in Slytherin. Thanks to Draco.

Darrin wrote :
> If you want to keep arguing that facing V-Mort four times in five 
> years, alone in three of the cases (books one, two and four and 
> outnumbered in four) is something that someone else besides Harry 
> might find a breeze (what will break you can be a breeze for me) 
> then maybe we should just end it. Because I'm not going to pretend 
> to respect that just for the sake of civility.

Del replies :
You're not trying to understand what I'm telling you. I NEVER said
that it isn't hard what Harry went through. In other words : HARRY
WENT THROUGH HELL BECAUSE OF LV. All right ? 
BUT !!!! We just don't know that other people didn't go through their
own hell for other reasons. *That* was the original discussion : that
Harry isn't necessarily the only one who's suffered badly.


Darrin wrote :
> What? You admitted you hated Harry just because others liked him. I 
> figured that if I piled on the like, you'd pile on the hate, since 
> it was an equal and opposite reaction. :)

Del replies :
I'm not a robot, Darrin.
And I do NOT hate Harry. What I DO hate is the way some people present
him as a saint. Big difference.

Darrin wrote :
> Maybe we should just agree to disagree and leave each other be. 
> Because I don't think you'll be satisfied with the "respect" I give.

Del replies :
Ah, you *finally* get it, do you :-) ?
"to agree to disagree" is almost the most basic rule on this list.
It's only when you broke it by complaining that some people didn't
like Harry that I jumped in. Now that we've settled things again, I'll
let you worship Harry, and you'll let me not like him, all right :-) ?

Del