Cheering on Harry

[darrin_burnett]

No: HPFGUIDX 100849


> Del replies :
> I see we have a different take on trust. I first believe in people,
> and then stop when they prove untrustworthy. You first want the
> Slytherins to prove trustworthy before you trust them. Why not, it's
> your right, but it makes cooperation between the Houses harder.
> Oh, and maybe they don't *care*, all those silent Slytherins ? They
> already know that they have a bad reputation no matter what, so 
maybe they don't care anymore.

People that stand by and allow racist filth and genocidal rantings to 
be spoken by someone wearing their colors and representing their 
house, country, flag, whatever, need a better reason than "They hate 
me anyway, so why should I care?"


> Darrin wrote :
> > The very fact that there IS still a House Slytherin speaks 
volumes. 
> > Unless there is some magical binding contract that prevents old 
> > Sal's line from being kicked out on their butts, one would think 
> > that there would be massive temptation to just dissolve the house 
> > and put the kids somewhere else.
> 
> Del replies :
> I agree. I've been wondering about that. And the most logical
> conclusion is that Slytherin House is NOT a bad House. Something 
went wrong somewhere.

I think Slytherin went off the rails with V-Mort. Phineas Nigellus is 
a tool at times, but he really comes off as more of a "loyal 
opposition" figure than an out-and-out enemy. And I felt more 
sypmathy for a damn Slytherin painting when he found out Sirius was 
dead than I have for any other Slytherin.

The problem is, V-Mort's sins will be remembered for generations. Say 
that the Nott kid is introduced. On JKR's website, she said the 
younger Nott was to be an independent figure, not siding with Draco 
right away. Maybe that kid has the stuff, but he has to overcome the 
hatred and fear of people like Neville, who essentially lost his 
parents to a Death Eater like Nott's dad.

Whinging and moaning about how no one likes them anyway, so it 
doesn't matter whether they disagree with the pureblood creed or V-
Mort doesn't seem like the answer.

Is it fair to pay for the sins of the fathers? Not at all. (Wish 
someone would tell Snape that) But expecting to be welcomed with open 
arms is another matter.

> Darrin wrote :
> > And these are not refugees who haven't been accepted by anyone 
else. 
> > Remember, these are the children of priviledge. Most of them, if 
not 
> > all of them (besides V-Mort) are pureblood, which means they are 
> > upper-crust in many eyes. 
> > 
> > The Slyths are the jocks, prom queens, rich kids, trend-setters, 
> > arbiters of status and harpies. They are NOT the Square Pegs, 
nerds,  
> > geeks, goths, skateboarders, punks, rebels, or any other picked 
on 
> > group in school. 
> 
> Del replies :
> That's a bit of speculation. Being pureblood doesn't guarantee 
status
> : just look at the Weasleys.

Yes, the Weasleys are considered blood traitors.

> And nowhere do we see the Slytherins being popular and upper-crust.
> Just because Draco is rich and famous doesn't mean his whole House 
is. You're extrapolating with very little basis.

They are rich. They are old. In Fudge's world, being pureblood counts 
for more. The very fact that an anti-Muggle persecution law is needed 
indicates that the Slytherin way has dominated for some time.

 
> Darrin wrote :
> > Let's go to real life for a minute. Picture a kid who is poor, or 
> > maybe struggling with his or her sexuality, or not as smart, or 
> > smart but not athletic, or with a single parent, or with a 
stutter.
> > 
> > Do you REALLY believe that child is welcome among people like the 
> > Slytherins you've seen?
> 
> Del replies :
> For that matter, that kid wouldn't be nicely treated by the
> Gryffindors either. Look at Neville. Another Pureblood by the way.

Yes, let's look at Neville:

Encouraged to fight back by his friends. Supported when he does. 
Helped through lessons by Hermione. Encouraged in his Herbology. Has 
lots of friends willing to help him when they find out about his 
folks. 

One of my favorite lines of OoP was Neville being introduced to Luna.

"I'm nobody."

Ginny: "No, you're not."

Next.


> 
> I, Del, said :
> > > Yep, Harry met people, lucky for him. Once again, it all comes 
> > > down to luck. Harry was lucky to meet the right people at the 
> > > right time in order to get a vague idea that he didn't want to 
be 
> > > in Slytherin.
> 

> 
> Del replies :
> As a matter of fact, it could be argued that the single person who
> most influenced Harry as to his choice of House was... Draco Malfoy.
> Harry wished to be with Ron, he wished to avoid Hermione if 
possible, but he sure didn't want to be with Draco. And when his turn 
came to be> sorted, he already knew that Hermione was in Gryffindor 
and Draco in
> Slytherin, but not that Ron would end up in Gryffindor. Hence his
> *only* desire : not to be in Slytherin. Thanks to Draco.

Finally! The little punk does something useful. Let's give him 99 
years in Azkaban instead of 100.


> Darrin wrote :
> > If you want to keep arguing that facing V-Mort four times in five 
> > years, alone in three of the cases (books one, two and four and 
> > outnumbered in four) is something that someone else besides Harry 
> > might find a breeze (what will break you can be a breeze for me) 
> > then maybe we should just end it. Because I'm not going to 
pretend to respect that just for the sake of civility.
> 
> Del replies :
> You're not trying to understand what I'm telling you. I NEVER said
> that it isn't hard what Harry went through. In other words : HARRY
> WENT THROUGH HELL BECAUSE OF LV. All right ? 

Whew, that took a lot longer than it should have. Glad to see you're 
coming around.


> BUT !!!! 

Oy vey.

>We just don't know that other people didn't go through their own 
hell for other reasons. *That* was the original discussion : that 
Harry isn't necessarily the only one who's suffered badly.
> 

Yeah, that Eloise chick had to suffer from acne.

Seriously, who else? Who else has grown up with the childhood Harry 
has, faced the same troubles at school, been hated by as many 
teachers (Snape, Quirrell, Moody/Crouch, and Umbridge), and been the 
target of public ridicule, both in and out of Hogwarts.

> Darrin wrote :
> > What? You admitted you hated Harry just because others liked him. 
I figured that if I piled on the like, you'd pile on the hate, since 
> > it was an equal and opposite reaction. :)
> 
> Del replies :
> I'm not a robot, Darrin.
> And I do NOT hate Harry. What I DO hate is the way some people 
present him as a saint. Big difference.
> 

Who said he was a saint? He's a good kid, overall, but he's not a 
saint. But you said yourself that you "hated" Harry as a reaction to 
the "love" for Harry out here.

Darrin