Cheering on Harry

[delwynmarch]

No: HPFGUIDX 100962

Darrin wrote :
> People that stand by and allow racist filth and genocidal rantings 
> to be spoken by someone wearing their colors and representing their 
> house, country, flag, whatever, need a better reason than "They hate 
> me anyway, so why should I care?"

Del replies :
They are KIDS, Darrin !!! You want me to keep in mind that Harry is a
kid, so please do the same for the Slytherin kids.

Darrin wrote :
> The problem is, V-Mort's sins will be remembered for generations. 
> Say that the Nott kid is introduced. On JKR's website, she said the 
> younger Nott was to be an independent figure, not siding with Draco 
> right away. Maybe that kid has the stuff, but he has to overcome the 
> hatred and fear of people like Neville, who essentially lost his 
> parents to a Death Eater like Nott's dad.
> 
> Whinging and moaning about how no one likes them anyway, so it 
> doesn't matter whether they disagree with the pureblood creed or V-
> Mort doesn't seem like the answer.
> 
> Is it fair to pay for the sins of the fathers? Not at all. (Wish 
> someone would tell Snape that) But expecting to be welcomed with 
> open arms is another matter.

Del replies :
That's what I've been trying to explain : there's a strong prejudice
against the Slytherin kids. It doesn't matter what they truly are
inside, they are systematically labeled as evil anyway.

And I personally think that welcoming them with open arms IS the right
thing to do. Tell them that those who came before them made wrong
choices but that they, the new kids, are being trusted to make the
right choices. The way things are being done now is exactly the
opposite : they are basically told that everyone knows they will make
wrong choices in the end. How constructive is that ?

I, Del, wrote :
> > And nowhere do we see the Slytherins being popular and 
> > upper-crust. Just because Draco is rich and famous doesn't mean 
> > his whole House is. You're extrapolating with very little basis.

Darrin answered :
> They are rich. They are old. In Fudge's world, being pureblood 
> counts for more. The very fact that an anti-Muggle persecution law 
> is needed indicates that the Slytherin way has dominated for some 
> time.

Del replies :
Who is "they" ? We know of some rich and old pureblood families,
that's right : the Malfoys, the Blacks, presumably the Potters and the
Longbottoms. We know of at least one old pureblood family who is poor
: the Weasleys. And we know that of all those pureblood families, only
the Malfoys and the Blacks agree with the Anti-Muggle mentality. So
it's a bit of a stretch to say that the old pureblood families are
Anti-Muggles.

Moreover, it's the whole wizarding society that has a problem with
Muggles in my idea : they simply don't respect them. Any time the
Muggles are mentioned in the books, it's always to make fun of them or
to say how clueless they are.

Darrin wrote : 
> Yes, let's look at Neville:
> 
> Encouraged to fight back by his friends. Supported when he does. 
> Helped through lessons by Hermione. Encouraged in his Herbology. Has 
> lots of friends willing to help him when they find out about his 
> folks. 
> 
> One of my favorite lines of OoP was Neville being introduced to 
> Luna.
> 
> "I'm nobody."
> 
> Ginny: "No, you're not."

Del replies :
And why do you think Neville described himself as nobody ? Precisely
because he thinks nobody cares about him. Only 2 people have ever
truly taken care of Neville : Hermione and Ginny. Nobody else cares.
You mention Neville's friends : who are they ? We know that Harry and
Ron hang together, and so do Dean and Seamus, and Lavender and
Parvati. But Neville ? Neville never hangs out with anyone. Neville is
always an additional piece, he's always the odd one out.
Oh, and you mention about the friends ready to help him when they find
out about his parents. Well, I have only a few words for those
so-called friends : took them long enough ! It was way before GoF came
out that I was asking myself why Neville had been brought up by his
Gran. But nobody in his own class seemed to care.

Darrin wrote, about Draco :
> Finally! The little punk does something useful. Let's give him 99 
> years in Azkaban instead of 100.

Del asks :
What did he do that should land him in Azkaban ??

I, Del, said :
> > You're not trying to understand what I'm telling you. I NEVER said
> > that it isn't hard what Harry went through. In other words : HARRY
> > WENT THROUGH HELL BECAUSE OF LV. All right ? 

Darrin answered :
> Whew, that took a lot longer than it should have. Glad to see you're 
> coming around.

In message 100800 I, Del, said :
" First, we don't know that Harry has suffered more than any other
character. He himself admits that Neville's fate is worse than his own
in many respects. Of course Neville didn't have to face LV, but so
what ? Facing LV isn't necessarily the worst thing that can happen to
someone."

Just in case you didn't notice, I wasn't dismissing Harry's trials, I
was just saying that we can't say he's the character who's suffered
most. He might be the one who's suffered the most *at the hands of
LV*, but who can say that he's suffered more than anyone else all in
all ? Nobody can be judge of that.

So no, I'm not coming around. It's you who're finally listening to
what I'm saying. Sorry I had to shout for you to hear...

I, Del, said :
> > We just don't know that other people didn't go through their own 
> > hell for other reasons. *That* was the original discussion : that 
> > Harry isn't necessarily the only one who's suffered badly.

Darrin answered : 
> Yeah, that Eloise chick had to suffer from acne.
> 
> Seriously, who else? Who else has grown up with the childhood Harry 
> has, faced the same troubles at school, been hated by as many 
> teachers (Snape, Quirrell, Moody/Crouch, and Umbridge), and been the 
> target of public ridicule, both in and out of Hogwarts.

Del replies :
I'm not saying that what Harry went through isn't horrible. But who
gave you the right to judge that nobody else has suffered just as much
for other reasons ? We don't know ANYTHING about what's going on in
the other kids' lives. It took Harry 4 years to discover by accident
the tragedy of Neville's life. So who can guess what might be going on
in some other kid's life ? Just because a torture is silent and
private doesn't mean it's less painful and destructive.

Darrin wrote : 
> Who said he was a saint? He's a good kid, overall, but he's not a 
> saint. But you said yourself that you "hated" Harry as a reaction to 
> the "love" for Harry out here.

Del replies :
"Who said he was a saint ?" Well I'd say all those people who
systematically refuse to see his faults. *Everyone* has faults in
those books, that's one reason I love them so much. So it annoys me
when some people try to dismiss Harry's faults just because he's the
hero ans they love him. Those faults are precisely what make me care
for him *when I read the books*, they are what make me relate to him :
"Oh Harry, you idiot, why ever did you have to do that, look at the
mess you got yourself into now, how are you gonna get out of it ?" And
then I chew on my nails for the next 100 pages, and I cringe when
things go wrong. But there's no way I can start by the end of my
sentence, the caring one. I have to be allowed to feel the entire
scope of my feelings towards Harry : annoyance, anger, irritation,
etc... So when I come on the group, and people try to force me to see
only Harry's good side, it turns Harry into some kind of inhuman being
in my eyes, and I can't care about him anymore.

And just in case you're wondering : I don't generally like Harry, but
I can care about him. In real life, I don't care only about the people
I like, thankfully !

Del