List debates (was Draco's Intent)

[darrin_burnett]

No: HPFGUIDX 101347

Dave:
> 
> (My own position is neither of these: I tend to the view that Draco 
> was criminally stupid.  If you had asked him beforehand what he 
> thought would happen he'd probably look blank, IMO, and if you taxed 
> him with the possibility that Harry would fall he'd shrug and 
> say 'Yeah, maybe, that'd be cool, wouldn't it?  Who cares?  We'll 
> have great fun making a fool of famous Harry Potter, won't we?'  My 
> canon support for this is that Draco 'clearly' hadn't thought about 
> the fact that there were teachers present, who could be relied upon 
> to enforce school discipline and punish him.)

My own feeling is that Draco believed Harry would fall and he and the Slyths 
would be able to get away to ditch the robes in all the confusion. I believe 
some elementary planning was involved. Draco is clever enough to have had 
an exit strategy here, which of course was foiled when he saw a silver stag 
coming at him. :)

I think Draco's words and actions in previous cases matter here.  

"I hope that mudblood Granger dies."

"Enemies of the Heir beware. You'll be next, mudbloods."

This is a kid that talks freely and openly of murder and death. I grant this could 
be nothing more than big talk, but I think the kid's mind works a little too 
violently to just stop at distractions, taunting and sabotaging a Quidditch 
match.

 
>  I'll give 
> > him that, mainly because I also give Sirius that same benefit of 
> the 
> > doubt when it comes to the Shrieking Shack prank.
> 
> Now this makes no sense to me at all.  If you truly consider there 
> is some doubt as to the nature and extent of Draco's planning, then 
> Sirius is irrelevant.  The cases may be parallel, and the parallel 
> may be of literary interest, but neither throws any light on the 
> interpretation of the other, IMO.

I put it out there not mainly as a comparison of the two, but to defend myself 
against taunts of hypocrisy. I DO see a correlation. Sirius was way, way, way 
over the line with the Shrieking Shack prank, but I do not believe he thought 
the matter all the way through.

And I also believe Sirius changed enough to regret it, no matter what bravado 
he gave in the Shrieking Shack in PoA.

I merely meant to allow that Draco could, someday, have the same second 
thoughts, though my own feeling is that he won't.
 

> All one can say, I think, is something like 'on my understanding of 
> canon, Draco intended Harry's death or serious injury.  I find such 
> behaviour indefensible.'  Another list member might then say 'my 
> reading is that he intended no harm to Harry beyond embarrassment 
> and loss of a Quidditch match.  Such behaviour is, in my view, 
> reprehensible, but not unusual in teenage children.'  All you can 
> each do is cite canon support for your interpretation and hope that 
> your co-debaters will be enlightened, while at the same time seking 
> such enlightenment for yourself.

My exact words were that "I find the little punk (Draco) indefensible."

I believe such "in my view," or "in my opinion" or "my interpretation" that you 
seem to be looking for is inherent in such a statement. "I find..."

I also think such statements are inherent in almost every single post out here, 
which is perhaps why I do not use them as clearly as my fellow posters might 
like.

Simply put, every post here is opinion, in one way or another. Some of it is 
better supported through canon, but in the end, it almost all boils down to 
point of view.

Darrin