[HPforGrownups] Re: Question for Snape Bashers

[Shaun Hately]

No: HPFGUIDX 102416

On 22 Jun 2004 at 12:40, darrin_burnett wrote:

> This, of course, is in reference to Hermione helping Neville with 
> Potions, an act which Snape has already punished Gryffindor house 
> for. (Five points off.)

Snape punished *Hermione* in the previous class. He did not punish 
Neville.

> Snape then prepares to leave, leaving Lupin to deal with humiliated, 
> angry and distracted students. Yeah, that's effective team teaching.

Who said anything about 'team teaching?' Not me. I'm fairly sure 
the idea is complete anathema to Snape, and I'd be surprised if the 
concept would even occur to Lupin.
 
> So I suppose you could argue that Snape was wanting to reinforce 
> the "Don't help him, Hermione," lesson, but guess what? This is 
> Lupin's class and Lupin can run it how he wants. He can even have 
> Hermione tutor Neville in class downtime if he wants.

No, I wouldn't argue that Snape was wanting to reinforce the 'Don't 
help him, Hermione' lesson. My view is that, if anything, it was 
'Don't let Hermione help you, Neville.'

Entirely a different lesson.
 
> Snape can save the reinforcement for his own class.

Yes, and in my opinion, he should have. Having let Neville leave 
his class without punishment, Snape should not have done what he 
did later. I'm not defending what he does in Lupin's class for a 
moment.

You're question was 'why is this an effective teaching tool'? 

That's what I was answering. I *do not* think Snape should have 
done this - that doesn't mean I think it's ineffective.

I don't think he should have done it for two reasons - the first is 
that he had the opportunity to punish Neville if he thinks it was 
deserved. He let it pass. It's unfair to do it later in such a 
case.

Secondly, it's grossly disrespectful to Lupin.
 
> Lupin comments that Neville will indeed be given the first task and 
> expresses confidence in him. And as we see, Neville succeeds, which 
> may be, without poring over canon, the first real academic success we 
> see Neville have outside of Herbology.
> 
> Which goes to show that sometimes a kind teacher's methods work too.

Sure, and I have never for one moment claimed that they don't. 
Often they are the best methods to use. Just not always.
 
> > I'm not saying I approve of the practice in general, because I 
> > don't (I think there can be very specific circumstance where it may 
> > be justified) - but it certainly can be highly effective.
> 
> The only way I can possibly think of that this would be justified is 
> if the teachers worked something out beforehand and had a bad 
> cop/good cop routine going, something I have a hard time believing 
> Snape and Lupin would be able to work together enough to do.

Yes, and that's pretty much what I think as well. But your question 
wasn't whether this method was justified - it was whether it could 
be effective. Different question.
 
> Otherwise, Snape is out of bounds and Lupin, effective teacher that 
> he is, uses it to help Neville and the rest of the class.

Snape *is* out of bounds in my opinion. But that doesn't mean his 
method might not work - it just means that there's other factors 
involved (such as common courtesy) that means this really wasn't 
the place for it.
 
> Ask any teacher how he or she feels about a colleague interrupting 
> his or her class to slam one of the students and I think you'll get 
> an answer that doesn't justify Snape.

Your question didn't ask about justification.

It asked about effectiveness.



Yours Without Wax, Dreadnought
Shaun Hately | www.alphalink.com.au/~drednort/thelab.html
(ISTJ)       | drednort at alphalink.com.au | ICQ: 6898200 
"You know the very powerful and the very stupid have one
thing in common. They don't alter their views to fit the 
facts. They alter the facts to fit the views. Which can be 
uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that 
need altering." The Doctor - Doctor Who: The Face of Evil
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