Is education a right or a privilege in WW? Was: Re: More on Snape

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 102655

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Shaun Hately" <drednort at a...> 
wrote:

snip.
> Many people seem to develop a belief somewhere along the line that 
> the teaching methods that worked best for them are automatically 
> the best teaching methods available. That simply is not so. It just 
> means that those were the methods that best suited *their* 
> educational needs. That doesn't make them the best methods in any 
> objective sense. By the same token, just because a method didn't 
> work for you - or even if hurt you - doesn't objectively speakin 
> make it a bad method. It just wasn't *right* for you.


Alla:

Shaun, I can only speak for myself, I cannot speak for many people, 
but my beliefs are a little bit different.

it is not that "the methods that are worked for me are the best", it 
is "the teaching methods I was taught are the best"

As I mentioned earlier, I underwent four years of training to become 
a teacher, therefore I am somewhat familiar with the subject matter, 
even if I did not become a teacher in the end.


Shaun:
 
> And it gets even more complicated because whether a method is a 
> good one or a bad one, also often depends on what you want to 
> measure.
> 
> If you regard education's primary purpose as instilling academic 
> knowledge in a child, you may favour different methods than if you 
> regard education's primary purpose as creating a self-confident 
> child. If you regard both as equally important, you may favour a 
> different method again.


Alla:

Yep, self-confidence is very important and as I said before even if 
child learns the material and at the same time gets very real 
emotional scars from such learning, it is not worth it To ME.


 
> snip.
> 
> > Hogwarts seems to be either Britain's *only* school for Wizards - 
> or certainly, it's most prominent. And to get in, you have to reach 
> certain minimum standards.
> 
> The Wizarding World apparently doesn't believe that secondary level 
> education is a *right* in the same way our world does. It's a 
> privilege.
> 
> While this view may seem odd to people today, historically - 
> including into quite recent history - it's not that unusual.
> 
> The thing is, because the Wizarding World doesn't see secondary 
> education as a fundamental right, that means it's far less likely 
> that it feels there is any obligation to ensure that every child 
> gets the education that would best suit their needs.



Alla:


I understand what are you talking about perfectly, but I don't 
remember any proof in canon that to get to Hogwarts you have to reach 
certain standards. Hogwarts is the only wisarding school in Britain, 
yes. Most exclusive? Not necessarily.

The only reason why Neville's family was worried is that they thought 
that he was a squib. It seems to me that any MAGICAL child can get to 
Hogwarts.


Shaun:

> I think the Wizarding World may have something of a different 
> attitude: "We teach the way we teach - if that's not right for you, 
> well, we're sorry - but we don't have to educate you."
> 
> In *our* world of universal, compulsory (or at least near-
> compulsory) education, that type of attitude is pretty unaccaptable 
> - if you force children to go to school, you accept some extra 
> responsibility for ensuring that the school can meet their needs.
> 
> But if it's voluntary... or even more, if it's a privilege - the 
> pressure to do that is *far* less.
>


Alla:


I would agree with you, but again I don't remember any proof that 
Hogwarts can deny admission to fully magical child from England.

snip.

Alla:

> > By the way, I am still waiting for someone to show me canon proof 
> > that Snape is a good teacher academically. :o)Let's put aside 
whether 
> > he is abusive or not for one second.
> > 
> > Yes, Shaun showed some good examples that Snape is passionate 
about 
> > his subject, but do we see any canon proof that his students 
actually 
> > learned something (besides Hermione making polyjuice potion)or 
that 
> > he just expects him to do well.


Shaun:
 
> Well, we might get some decent information on this if the studenst 
> took about the OWLs in Book 6.
> 
> But for the moment, I think there is still one clear piece of 
> evidence.
> 
> Umbridge describes Snape's fifth year class as 'fairly advanced' 
> for the level - at the same time as she is criticising Snape's 
> syllabus choices. Umbridge doesn't seem to miss a trick in 
> criticising the teachers - she's not going to say Snape has a 
> fairly advanced class if it isn't true (in fact, I would suspect 
> given the way she treats other teachers that 'fairly advanced' 
> probably means a lot more than she says).



Alla: 

Oh, yes. It is a good evidence. Thanks.


I still think that Harry and Neville would learn more without Snape 
in classroom, though. :)
 
>