[HPforGrownups] Re: Time Turner headache

[Troels Forchhammer]

No: HPFGUIDX 102731

At 18:17 24-06-04 +0000, nkafkafi wrote:
>--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Barbara D. Poland-Waters" 
><bd-bear at v...> wrote:
> > alora wrote:
> >>

<snip>

> >> If she's taking Arithmancy and goes there first, then time turns
> >> so she can do Divination (I may have the order wrong, I'm just
> >> doing a "perhaps"), would you be able to peek into both classes and
> >> see her in each of them?
> >
> > Barbara wrote:
> >
> > I do get the sense that it works like that, evidenced by Hermione and Ron
> > seeing themselves after they did the time-turning thing.

Hermione and Harry, surely. I don't recall Ron ever doing any Time-
Turning.

>Neri:
>
>To Alora, this is a definite YES to your question. Hermione WAS at two 
>classes at the same
>time.

Definitely. As is surely evidence when Harry sees himself - both
ways - as he saved himself (as well as Hermione and Sirius) from
the Dementors.

> > I also think the faculty (at least the relevant faculty for the
> > classes Hermione was registered for) had to know about it. Which does
> > make you wonder, would they leave Snape out of the loop, or other
> > teachers whose classes were not in conflict on Hermione's schedule?
>
>To Flora, I actually don't see any reason why the teachers (other than
>McGonagall) should have known about it. It does seem that Snape didn't
>know, and Hermione was also visiting Potions while going to other classes.
>I don't have the book with me but I know there is canon for it.

Surely - she disappears at one point as the trio is going up from the crypt
after Potions.

I have always thought that Snape possibly knew - primarily because I think
that he does realise what had been going on while speaking with Dumbledore
and Fudge in the hospital wing. The relevant passage is from PoA-22 'Owl
Post Again':

   "  'HE DIDN'T DISAPPARATE!' Snape roared, now very close at
    hand. 'YOU CAN'T APPARATE /OR/ DISAPPARATE INSIDE THIS
    CASTLE! THIS - HAS - SOMETHING - TO - DO - WITH - POTTER!'
      'Severus - be reasonable - Harry has been locked up -'
  [...]
      'THEY HELPED HIM ESCAPE, I KNOW IT!' Snape howled, pointing
    at Harry and Hermione. His face was twisted; spit was flying
    from his mouth.
      'Calm down, man!' Fudge barked. 'You're talking nonsense!'"

At this point it seem fairly well established that Snape is indeed 'beside
himself'. Roaring, howling and shrieking, twisted face and spit flying -
this is a man who who has completely lost control of his rage.

Now - what happens a short while later:


   "  'Well, there you have it, Severus,' said Dumbledore calmly.
    'Unless you are suggesting that Harry and Hermione are able to
    be in two places at once, I'm afraid I don't see any point in
    troubling them further.'
      Snape stood there, seething, staring from Fudge, who looked
    thoroughly shocked at his behavior, to Dumbledore, whose eyes
    were twinkling behind his glasses.  Snape whirled about, robes
    swishing behind him, and stormed out of the ward."

How come that he suddenly just 'whirled about [...] and stormed out of the
ward" instead of continuing his maddened roaring? We know now that he is
indeed a Legilimens and as such /might/ be able to detect what Dumbledore
means (after all they know each other well, and Dumbledore doesn't appear
to hide his emotions), and, realising what has actually happened - that
Harry and Hermione indeed /were/ "able to be in two places at once", he
also realise that his loyalty toward Dumbledore effectively shuts him up
in the presence of the Minister. Hence his sudden turn about and hasty
retreat.

The thing is - it becomes much easier to believe this if Snape knew of the
Time-Turner beforehand, but just hadn't thought of it as a possible solution
to the riddle (<g>) until Dumbledore's comment about being in two places
simultaneously.

Dumbledore's intention, IMO, would be to leave Fudge in no doubt that Snape's
claims are not to be believed, and it works:

      'Fellow seems quite unbalanced,' said Fudge, staring
    after him. 'I'd watch out for him if I were you,
    Dumbledore.'

But having achieved his end, Dumbledore doesn't have to lie - he can clearly
state the truth, knowing that Fudge will not believe him.

      'Oh, he's not unbalanced,' said Dumbledore quietly. 'He's
    just suffered a severe disappointment.'

Now, it is clear that Fudge would have access to the knowledge that Hermione
had access to a Time-Turner, but surely he wasn't involved when she was given
it (I don't believe that the Minister for Magic would be involved in such a
matter - clearly a bureaucratic issue as evidenced by the paperwork needed),
and even though he might, a year later, have started to investigate Harry and
Dumbledore's records at the Ministry, the Time-Turner wouldn't turn up (pun
not intended), as it was requested by McGonagall for Hermione (as Hermione
explains to Harry when telling him about the Time-Turner).

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