CHAPTER DISCUSSION: Chapter 13 (Detention with Dolores)

[pippin_999]

No: HPFGUIDX 91871

Thanks, Penny for the summary and thought-provoking 
questions. I'm glad you dropped in :-)

1.  This is one of the first signs of how Ron will handle his
responsibilities as prefect.  Do you think it was merely his family
relationship with the Twins that kept him from being a 
rules-enforcer withHermione or would he have shirked his 
responsibilities if it had been Seamusand Dean doing 
something questionable or something that clearly broke a
school rule?  Do you think Harry might have taken his prefect 
duties any more seriously than Ron did?


A>I don't think Harry would have had any better luck disciplining 
the twins.  He certainly wouldn't have thought of grassing on 
them to Molly. I don't think it's fair to say that Ron didn't take
his prefect duties seriously. There doesn't seem to be any  
breakdown of order in Gryffindor House, aside from the 
twins--and the previous prefects never made much headway 
with this kind of thing either. Canary creams come to mind, not to 
mention the brisk trade in illegal charms during the monster 
scare in  CoS. And aren't there sixth and seventh year prefects? 
What were they, next door neighbors? <g> If Hermione really 
needed help, why didn't she ask them?

2.  What do you think about Hermione's attempt to trick the house 
elves intopicking up clothing that will set them free?  Do you 
agree with Ron that"they should at least see what they're picking 
up?"

A>This is the same sort of manipulative behavior that got 
Hermione into trouble with the centaurs at the end of the book. 
The question is, has she seen the light now, or is it going to get 
her into still more hot water?

3.  This is one of several instances where Seamus seems to be 
trying to talkto Harry.  As in other cases, Harry often doesn't want 
to take the troubleand/or risk the confrontation that might occur if 
he encouraged an antagonist to discuss things with him.  You 
may recall that Rowling usedsimilar language to signal that Ron 
might have been amenable to making it upwith Harry sooner, but 
Harry's stubborn pride and unwillingness to engage in
anything emotionally "messy" always gets in the way.  Do you 
think it isstubborn pride, emotional distance or perhaps inner 
protectiveness thatcauses Harry to react this way?

A>All three. Under stress, Harry tends to revert to the behavior he 
needed to survive the Dursleys--stay in his room, make no 
noise, and pretend he's not there.

4.  On first read, did you guess what Ron was up to (practicing 
for theKeeper tryouts)?

A>I did. In fact, I'm surprised anyone missed it.  Asking for a new 
broomstick was a pretty big hint. Harry would've guessed too, if 
he weren't so pre-occupied.

5.  Is it possible that Harry was really there for 7 *hours* writing 
linesthat cut into his own hand, or is this another case of 
Rowling not being very good with time details?

A>I think this is her heightened style-- many things are  
exaggerated in the Potterverse. At another place in the book 
Fudge jumps so much in surprise that his feet leave the floor. 
It's also characteristic of the Potterverse  that  painful injuries 
occur often while the potential for lasting damage is seldom 
realized, barring a scar or two. For some reason this is more a 
concern with  cruelty than  violence. People often wonder why 
Hogwarts allows such sadistic teachers, but they never seem to 
worry that a Bludger  could kill someone.  <g>. 


6.  Was Harry wrong to fail to alert even one Hogwarts professor 
about whatwas going on with Umbridge's detentions?  He 
probably didn't know the extentof her power at that exact point in 
time, so it was more likely Harry'sdistrust of adults and authority 
figures (and dislike of "showing weakness")that prompted his 
decision to stoically bear his ordeal and stay silent.
Even Ron thinks Harry's desire to avoid having Umbridge know 
that she "got to him" is ridiculous, as he urges him to report the 
incidents to McGonagall or Dumbledore.

A>Yup. See answer to question 3. But Harry may have a point. 
Umbridge would only come up with something more vile and 
perfecty legal. And  waaay back in Book One Hagrid has an 
exchange with Draco that suggests refusing a detention will get 
you expelled. 

7.  Does Ron have reason to think Harry would laugh at the idea 
of himtrying out for Keeper (i.e., is he a bad Quidditch player in 
general), or isthis just Ron's lack of confidence manifesting itself 
rather plainly?  Do you think the Twins play an especially strong 
role in Ron's self-esteem issues?  He seems to be particularly 
sensitive to their jibes and avoids giving them reason to bother 
him.

A>Ron doesn't really know what he can do. He's only had that 
dreadful broom to practice on, aside from the times when Harry 
let him borrow the Nimbus or the Firebolt. That he could manage 
the Keeper post when Charlie and the Twins were practicing 
during holidays on such a dismal mount is a pretty good 
indication of skill.

8.  Were you convinced by Hermione's explanation that maybe it 
was coincidence that Harry's scar hurt when Umbridge touched 
him?  Is Hermione right so often in OoP that it might be a red 
herring in later books?

A>It's a red herring in *this* book. She's right about the 
coincidence, but she's wrong about what it means.  What Harry 
felt was Voldemort's surge of happiness over  the sentencing of 
Sturgis Podmore. Combined with Voldemort's anger when 
Podmore was caught,  it means Podmore was not set up by the 
MoM as Hermione supposed. It's too soon for her to realize that 
there's a traitor in the Order, of course. Mwahahaha!

9.  Shipping question (of course!): what do you make of the fact 
thatHermione seems anxious to get off to bed on a night when 
Ron will clearlywanting to be celebrating and might even have 
confidence enough to make aromantic gesture towards her?  If 
she knows he likes her and she likes himback, why would she 
not take the chance to be alone with him when he's in
the best spirits ever before (and instead asks Harry to join her in 
knittingthe next day, looking "disappointed" at his answer)?  <g>

A>Ahhh, hope springs eternal...but she fell asleep in her chair in 
the first place because she was forcing herself to stay up so as 
not to be rude to Ron...if not for him, she'd have gone to bed 
already. :-)

Pippin