[HPforGrownups] Re: Lupin's resentment : An inside to Snape's resentment

[Silverthorne]

No: HPFGUIDX 94019

{Silverthorne}
**Hears the fighting ring bell go off...lol! ^^;}

Great to see you, Alla. Shall we? :)

{Alla}

You said that just because we don't see Snape with a loved one, does not
mean that he can't love? Well, after OoP that is exactly how I feel - I
don't see Snape being capable of love. In fact I don't see him being capable
feeling anything else, but hate. Surely, this hate is manifested towards
Harry and Sirius, but we mainly see Snape interacting with them.

{Silverthorne}

Then you are basing that assumption on a lopsided opinion--one you pointed
out yourself. You see him interacting with Sirius and Harry--but JUST Sirius
and Harry. Basing his whole atttiude on the interaction with just a few
people he comes into contact with is a mis service--it would be if you
applied that to any person. These three do nto get along--so it's no surpise
we see Snape at his worst. But we have yet to see him at his best, so it's
still an unfair comparison. remember, JKR let's us see only through Harry's
eyes--and Harry is not exactly impartial, nor is he all-knowing.

Personally, I think Severus can feel love. Why? If Snape could no longer
love, then he would have had absolutely no reason to leave the DE. The DE do
not love, in fact, they value the one trait that most associated with
Snape--hate. Hate of Muggles, hate of Half Bloods, absolute distain of
everything but that which they value. If Severus truly felt this way, then
he would have had no reason for a crisis of conscience 11 years before the
first book started...no reason to change his mind about where he stood on
things. No reason at all to go to Dumbledore and go "I was wrong, and now I
want out". He certianly would not have gone back IN as a spy 'at great
personal risk'  again 11 years later (Surely he could have come up with a
good reason in thoise 11 years for why he could no longer help Dumbledore
out that way--he IS intelligent and smart after all). It takes love in order
to risk yourself that way...and it would have to be the real article to
still be willing to do it 11 years after everything was thought to be over
and done with in the first place...it may not be a hands on,  'Aw let's hug
it' kind of love, but it is there, in the form of self-sacrifice if nothing
else.

Yes, we can see hate when Snape deals with Sirius. But sorry, but I would
have a very hard time *not* hating a man who almost sent me to my death at
the jaws of a were-wolf, even if it was 'only a prank'. What a poor excuse
to be made by a young man who, from what it looks like in the pensieve, was
brilliant enough to pass his OWLs with little effort--including his DADA
test (which means he knows, as well as anyone can, what a werewolf would do
to an interloper in its territory). If the man was so damned smart, why
didn't it occur to him that his little prank would likely result in murder?

Going further, my hate would get worse when, as adults, the man continued to
bait me, despite the fact that we are both adults and supposedly working
together. I am human, so is Snape. I am no more surprised by his reaction
(and consider it completely valid) as you are by Harry's. There is more than
one side to this, and Snape is not the only one 'at fault' in these
scenarios. As much blame lies on Sirius's shoulders--he's just as capable of
seeing past his own hurts as Snape is, and yet fails just as miserably in
doing so.

The hope for Snape lies in the man eventually seeing beyond that. He may not
have managed it with Sirius--then again, Sirius did not make it easy for
him. Neither does Harry (Yes, I know 'But Harry, as the child, should not
have to be the one to back down first'. To that, I say 'Horsefeathers!' He's
smart enough to know how to--just because someone else can't or won't
doesn't excuse *him*. If he uses that logic, he'll become falsely
self-righteous and *wrong* in his thinking--he might even go as far as TR
did in how he treats people (you are only worthy of being treated humanely
if you meet *these* criteria) .

Or are you trying to say that smart, talented Harry cannot figure out right
from wrong 'despite' some ogre of an adult? That's not giving Harry any
credit at all. I'd rather give him credit for being able to adjust his
attitude than let him wallow!

{Alla}

I am not a cynical person at all and for me to be able to feel something for
the character said character should be able to express some positive
emotions.

{Silverthorne}

Well, that just means you prefer 'happy' characters, and that's not a big
deal. But to condemn the not so postive ones is to disqualify thier rights
as a human (not that it matters since they are fictional characters, but
still...). Harry has good reasons for how he is, so does Sirius. So does
Snape. You may not like how he reacts, but his reactions are no less valid,
just different, and not how you would prefer to react. At least he's not
torturing and killing muggles and half bloods for a living...

{Alla}

Yes, Sirius loves certain people  and hates others, but frankly I am  amased
that after the Azkaban he is still capable of feeling love to ANYBODY and I
love him for that, not for some "cool package" What did you mean by that, by
the way? :o)

{Silverthorne}

Let's see, he's pretty (or was). He loves the hero, he was the type to ride
a motorcycle, so he has a wild streak (one that is proven through when he
eggs Harry on in some of his adventures), he was one of the popular kids
when he was younger, he manages to 'survive' despite all life has thrown at
him, he knows which people to hate (Snape the grouch included right along
with the DE and other evil wizards). In other words, he's *cool* to the
average youthful eye (and often to the adults as well) He's what every
hotheaded, messed up, but well-meaning 'hero' *should* be according to
current societal values, and so the readers love him for it. As for
surviving Azkaban--I'm not all that amazed. He had a purpose that he clung
to, he knew he was innocent, he had his dog form to rely on when it got to
be too much as a human. I admire him for hanging on as long as he did, but
I'm not really surprised, any more than I am surprised that Harry holds up
as well as he does in his situation. Why? Because both of them are extremely
strong willed--often to the point of often not listening to others. They are
survivors (and as a fellow survivor, I admire them, but don't automatically
catapult them to 'god-like' status for it). Azkaban was not a walk in the
park, but I don't think it reallty twisted Sirius all that much. Much of his
personality is still intact--you can line up Sirius-now next to Sirius-then
(in the penseive) and see exactly where each and every present day trait
came from, and it wasn't exposure to the Dementors that made him how he is
in present time. Sirius always was the way he is now, minus the depression
and sulking we see in OotP (Which is easily enough explained by
understanding that this is not a personality type meant to be locked in a
house with nowehere to go for a long time).

{Alla}

Sirius is a broken, hurting man, who would greatly benefit (as many  HP
characters, IMO) from spending many hours with the psychologist. Yes, I give
him a break, because I see him as a character, who is capable to feel some
positive things and yes, because he loves my favourite character. Harry sure
needs that.

{Silverthorne}

Severus is also a broken, hurting man (although its a little harder to see
past all those spines he wears to keep everyone at a safe distance) who
would benefit from a pyschologist. I see him as capable of postive things,
and feelings (although some insane part of me would be jealous, ^^; , I
really WOULD like to see the 'Severus Falls in Love' rumor come to fruition
in book 7--perhaps then you would see that he really is just as human and
worthy of human regard as your favs.)--by the same token though, he does NOT
have the luxury of expressing those feelings as Sirius does, for the simple
reason that he is a *spy*--one that is under constant scrutiny from one time
DE friends, as well as the *children* of those DE. It's a scrutiny Snape
cannot escape, since he teachers these very kids, right alongside Harry. We
know Draco reports everything he sees to his father--I'm sure there are
other DE children that do the same. Snape endulging in the same emotional
state as Sirius would get him killed quicker than you can say "Avada
Kadavra"--his very life hangs in the balance of being convincing enough in
all areas of his life as the Bastard from Hell who Hates Harry Potter. But
again, are you taking that into account? No. And that's a shame. Because his
attitude is not all nice and cheerful, you discount him. Because he delivers
lessons to Harry (yes, harshly) that perhaps the boy SHOULD learn, he's a
monster.

He really isn't, but you have to look past the convincing outer packaging
and various masks to see it. Snape does care (although some, like Kneasy,
would argue its because he's saving his own skin...^^), he is capable of
love, and he isn't quite the monster he appears to be. Unfortunately, he is
in a roll he first built for himself as a DE and now must maintain for the
sake of intelligence gathering, even if that's not really what lies beneath
the surface any more (well, okay, he's probably still a snarky git, but I
still think there's a very human heart in there). In other words, the
adults, who read this and can think things through, need to do what Harry
cannot, and take more than a surface look at Snape before they start hauling
off with the accusations. There's more to this whole thing than poor Harry
being picked on.

{Alla}

Just realised that I keep talking about Sirius in the present tense. Well,
never mind. :)

{Silverthorne}

That's okay, I don't think he's really gone either. Since when has a little
case of the 'deads' stopped someone like Sirius in a story like this? ;)
We'll see him again, I'm sure. Maybe death will knock a little sense and
tolerance into him. It would be nice to see--and something I hope for. Much
as I hope Harry proves to be worthy of the 'hero' moniker and drags his
silly, 16 year old butt out of his teenage funk and starts acting like the
responsible young man I know he can be once he starts using that brain of
his. In order to defeat Voldemort, he'll have to. I just hope it's before
his 'natural' teenage attitude costs him something...like the life of a
close friend.


{Alla}

I know that there is a chance of learning that Snape loved one time. Well I
for once will be very happy to learn that, but so far yes, I will defend
Harry and Sirius much more.

{Silverthorne}

Hey, I wouldn't have it any other way--I just hope someday you'll give Snape
his due is all. *winks*

Anne