Evaluating Snape (was: Re: Lupin's resentment )

[cubfanbudwoman]

No: HPFGUIDX 94324

Siriusly Snapey Susan:
> > No evidence??  You mean like his lack of progress w/ 
> > Occlumency?  I suspect if Lupin, McGonagall, DD, heck, throw in 
> > Flitwick, had been Harry's Occulumency teacher, he *would* have 
> > learned.  Their history--which is a *two-way street* of 
> > assumptions and nastiness and hatred--directly affects Harry's 
> > ability & willingness to learn Occlumency.  Notice I'm not 
> > absolving Harry of responsibility for his part in the matter, 
> > but I am saying that I do indeed believe that what Snape has 
> > thrown at Harry for five years *has* most definitely affected 
> > Harry in this way.
  
Kneasy:
> Here we diverge.
> Snape is an equal opportunity tyrant. Annoy  him and you'll know
> about it, no matter who you are.

Susan again:
Do you really think so, Kneasy?  I don't think I'd offer a blanket 
disagreement,  but do you really think Crabbe & Goyle's collective 
thickness doesn't annoy Snape?  Yet we've never seen him act as a 
tyrant to them.  Or would you argue that it occurs, but simply 
offscreen?  I think perhaps *Gryffindors* annoy him (nearly) equally-
-though Harry leads the pack, of course--and so Snape may be an 
equal opportunity tyrant towards the Gryffindors.  Ah, well, you 
*do* agree he's a tyrant, even if I can't get you to admit that 
being one is bad nor that his inequitable treatment of Harry & the 
Gryffindors is wrong.

> What  was very significant IMO was that Snape started needling
> Harry  from day one. This  is  not an accident. It was deliberate
> and contrived. 
> 
> We  agree  that Snape is not an idiot; just the opposite - he seems
> to  be regarded as a Potions super-star. Would such a calculating,
> cold-blooded, non-trivial individual be so unthinking and petty as
> to resurrect an old quarrel with a person now dead down to the
> second generation? Not without a fresh impetus, I think.
> 
> The key word is 'calculating'. What does Snape have to gain from
> giving  Harry  the  hard word  at every opportunity? Not much.
> Unless you  think in wider terms. He has his credentials with the
> DEs and through them to Voldy to think about. And kids will talk.
> It wouldn't do for the likes of Malfoy, Crabbe and Goyle to get the
> impression that Sevvy was going soft on the Potter kid.
> 
> If what most of us think is true about Snape's work for the Order,
> then he must be a superb actor to be able to get away with it.
> Every good actor needs his props - and Harry  (and Neville) come
> in very handy indeed.
> 
> DD helps the action along. He gives Harry a reason why Snape hates
> him. His father. This to an 11 year old who doesn't know which way 
> is up in the WW. So now when anyone wonders what's going on, Harry
> can tell them. All nicely wrapped up. This story will run and run.
> 
> I've posted before that  I believe that DD  and Snape are one of 
the 
> best double-acts in the business. DD knows exactly what is going 
on,
> IMO it was probably his idea. All part of his "Let's make sure 
Harry
> is not coddled, spoilt or hero-worshipped" plan. After 11 years in 
> the Muggle  world and seeing the  WW as a refuge he needs to learn
> very, very quickly that there are some nasty people around. And he
> needs to learn how to cope with them. What better  place to  learn 
> than at school? So in a way what Snape does is intended to  have
> an effect on Harry - but it's for a positive reason.
>   
> Now I don't  claim that Snape likes Harry. He probably doesn't like
> anyone much, but he knows and  appreciates  that Harry isn't James
> or Sirius.Them he will never forgive, but he has no real argument
> with Harry, just general levels of scorn and contempt, suitable for
> any incompetent in his classes. 

> Harry, on the other  hand... Hoo! For him it's all real.  Snape 
hates
> him and he hates Snape; even when he finds out that they're both
> on the same side. Snape and DD believe that they can live with 
this,
> it's only a schoolboy's emotional spasm, but it blows up in their
> faces when it comes to Occlumency. Harry is so adamantly anti-
> Snape (anti-everybody, come to that), that he will not co-operate.


Susan again:
I *tried* to snip more here, list elves, but I couldn't make 
myself!  In spite of the fact that I was *trying* to argue w/ you, 
Kneasy, dammit, this is good!  I myself have argued that Snape keeps 
up a front for the DEs and DEs' kids (and thus for Voldy)--in fact I 
did so earlier today when I posted that I believe Snape only applies 
for the DADA position to save face w/ that gang.  So I can hardly 
disagree with you and say that this could not be part of the same DD-
Snape plan.  In fact, if it is truly their plan, it has worked quite 
well.  As you say, it's all VERY real to Harry.

On the other hand, I can still say Snape sucks as a teacher. ;-)  I 
mean, could he not find ways to be nasty to Harry *outside* of the 
classroom or a little less frequently in it?  Or if that's all part 
of The Plan, to at least leave Neville & Hermione & Ron out of his 
cruelty & sarcasm?


Siriusly Snapey Susan:
> > Jeepers, I made that [Grade Abuse] up!  I should NEVER have 
> > coined the phrase in the first place; it was half in jest, which 
> > clearly didn't come through.  

Kneasy:
> Splendid! I like it! An imaginary concept thrown into the thread 
> just to wind everybody up. Must remember to try that myself at an
> opportune moment.

Susan again:
So glad you approve. ;-)

Siriusly Snapey Susan