Evaluating Snape (was: Re: Lupin's resentment )

[justcarol67]

No: HPFGUIDX 94388

Kneasy wrote:
<snip>
> Here we diverge.
> Snape is an equal opportunity tyrant. Annoy  him and you'll know
> about it, no matter who you are.

Carol:
Kneasy, please don't faint or be too disappointed that someone agrees
with you wholeheartedly. I think you're right on all counts in this
post (however, you'll be glad to know that we envision Snape quite
differently--you've added a few traits in another post that aren't
exactly canonical :-) ).

Regarding the "equal opportunity tyrant" remark: We seldom see him
with any students other than Gryffindors and Slytherins, but he
deducts ten points each from Miss Fawcett (a Ravenclaw) and Stebbins
(a Hufflepuff) when he catches them behind the rosebushes, presumably
kissing, at the Yule Ball. No doubt there are plenty of similar
incidents. We just don't see them because Harry doesn't.

> 
> What was very significant IMO was that Snape started needling
> Harry  from day one. This is not an accident. It was deliberate
> and contrived. Most posters would agree with that. The critical
> question is "Why?"

Carol:
IMO, it's because it's essential to establish that Harry is not
special *in himself*--he is not a hero for not having died and he
didn't deliberately vaporize Voldemort. These things *just happened*
to him. The other students need to know right away that this kid is
not some superhero whom they should worship, and Harry needs to know
it, too. Far from making him an abuse victim, this tactic is designed,
IMO, to keep him as *normal* as possible. (Lockhart, in the next book,
has the opposite view--Harry is a precocius celebrity who should be
handing out autographed photos of himself. We all know that Lockhart
is an idiot, and we should understand that this view of Harry is all
wrong. We see this idea again with Krum, who has a gaggle of girls
following his every move--a situation that Dumbledore and Snape know
would be disastrous for Harry.) I'm not denying that Harry has done
some remarkable things by Book 5, but as he himself notes when he's
not being controlled by anger and resentment, part of that was luck
and he always had help. Harry has to learn that it's possible to fail
and to understand the consequences of failure. And above all, he needs
to learn to be patient and to follow directions--lessons Snape imposes
on him at every turn.
>
Keasy wrote: 
> We agree that Snape is not an idiot; just the opposite - he seems
> to be regarded as a Potions super-star. Would such a calculating,
> cold-blooded, non-trivial individual be so unthinking and petty as
> to resurrect an old quarrel with a person now dead down to the
> second generation? Not without a fresh impetus, I think.

<paragraph moved here from later in Kneasy's post>
> DD helps the action along. He gives Harry a reason why Snape hates
> him. His father. This to an 11 year old who doesn't know which way 
> is up in the WW. So now when anyone wonders what's going on, Harry
> can tell them. All nicely wrapped up. This story will run and run.

Carol:
Exactly. Dumbledore is providing Snape with a believable motive for
disliking Harry from the beginning of their relationship--believable
because it's partly true. He reinforces this idea at the end of OoP,
allowing Harry to think that Snape discontinued the Occlumency lessons
solely because of his old quarrel with James. He doesn't even mention
Snape's very understandable anger at Harry for invading his private
memories. But that anger explains only Snape's initial reaction. It's
far from the whole story. I'm pretty sure, as you also seem to be,
that it would have been disastrous for LV to see the other memories in
that Pensieve. And I'm also sure that if the Occlumency were working
(if Harry had not resented Snape so fiercely that the refused to
practice), that DD would have ordered Snape to continue. But he knew
about the discontinuation and allowed it. He must have understood and
respected Snape's reasons for abandoning the lessons--but he did not
give those reasons to Harry.  

Kneasy wrote: 
> The key word is 'calculating'. What does Snape have to gain from
> giving  Harry  the  hard word  at every opportunity? Not much.
> Unless you  think in wider terms. He has his credentials with the
> DEs and through them to Voldy to think about. And kids will talk.
> It wouldn't do for the likes of Malfoy, Crabbe and Goyle to get the
> impression that Sevvy was going soft on the Potter kid.

Carol:
Exactly. He has to maintain credibility as the Head of Slytherin House
and with the Death Eaters whom he has to associate with to obtain
information for DD. He *apparently* favors Draco for the same
reason--he has to remain on good terms with Draco's father, who I
believe is his chief contact for the information he gains about the
DEs for Dumbledore. But as I argued in another post, that "favoritism"
amounts to ignoring Draco's misbehavior and calling him by his first
name. It does not include giving him undeserved high marks. We never
see Draco messing up in Potions. If his were pink instead of
turquoise, if he melted his cauldron or set his robe on fire, we would
know about it because Harry would be gloating. I think we'll see Draco
in Snape's NEWT Potions class because he deserves to be there. (Heaven
forfend, we'll probably see Pansy Parkinson, too--but not the cretins
Crabbe and Goyle).
> 
Kneasy wrote:
> If what most of us think is true about Snape's work for the Order,
> then he must be a superb actor to be able to get away with it.
> Every good actor needs his props - and Harry (and Neville) come
> in very handy indeed.

 <short paragraph on Snape and James snipped and moved>
 
> I've posted before that I believe that DD  and Snape are one of the 
> best double-acts in the business. DD knows exactly what is going on,
> IMO it was probably his idea. All part of his "Let's make sure Harry
> is not coddled, spoilt or hero-worshipped" plan. After 11 years in 
> the Muggle  world and seeing the  WW as a refuge he needs to learn
> very, very quickly that there are some nasty people around. And he
> needs to learn how to cope with them. What better  place to learn 
> than at school? So in a way what Snape does is intended to  have
> an effect on Harry - but it's for a positive reason.
>   
> Now I don't claim that Snape likes Harry. He probably doesn't like
> anyone much, but he knows and  appreciates  that Harry isn't James
> or Sirius. Them he will never forgive, but he has no real argument
> with Harry, just general levels of scorn and contempt, suitable for
> any incompetent in his classes. Exaggerating his attitudes towards 
> Harry would most likely give him a perverse pleasure.

Carol:
Also Harry greatly increases Snape's workload by continuing being out
of bounds and breaking rules, and part of Snape's job is to catch him
and prevent him from making matters worse. Few students other than the
Weasley twins are that much trouble. Harry, in Snape's view, is just
like his father in that respect--except that his survival is essential
to the WW and Snape is trying to insure that Harry survives despite
his own personal antipathy. And Snape also has reason to believe that
Harry has broken into his office--boomslang skin was stolen in Harry's
second year and is missing again in GoF. Snape has no way of knowing
at that point that it was stolen by Crouch!Moody. Harry was out of bed
at three in the morning wearing his invisibility cloak and carrying
the Marauder's Map on the same night that his office was broken into.
What else is he supposed to think? So IMO, the dislike is real, the
resentment is real, but he is nevertheless firmly on Dumbledore's side
and trying to keep Harry safe for the sake of the WW (and his own life
debt to James).
>
Kneasy wrote: 
> Harry, on the other  hand... Hoo! For him it's all real.  Snape
hates him and he hates Snape; even when he finds out that they're both
> on the same side. Snape and DD believe that they can live with this,
> it's only a schoolboy's emotional spasm, but it blows up in their
> faces when it comes to Occlumency. Harry is so adamantly anti-
> Snape (anti-everybody, come to that), that he will not co-operate.
<snip>

Carol:
Exactly. All those passages about Snape hating Harry must be read with
a grain of salt. They're from Harry's point of view. I suggest that
anyone who doubt this read passages unrelated to Snape where the
narrator seems to be giving straightforward information that
afterwards turns out to be wrong--Harry's parents dying in a car
accident, Sirius trying to murder Harry, Harry about to die, Dementors
able to see, etc. this "information" is wrong because it's what Harry
"knows" at the time. But it's really what Harry *thinks* he knows. 

I do hope that Dumbledore provides Harry some solid information about
Snape in Book 6, but I doubt that he will. The danger of LV finding
out, through Harry, what Snape is really up to will still be too
great. But I do see a reluctant and grudging respect for Harry on
Snape's part at the end of OoP. In fact, his reaction to McGonagall's
restoring points to Gryffindor is so mild that he almost gives the
game away. Maybe Harry will develop a similar grudging appreciation
for Snape's enormous workload and the dangers he has to face. He can't
keep using Snape as a scapegoat for his resentment. He has to
understand that it was not the discontinued Occlumency lessons that
killed Sirius. He must realize that he and Snape are on the same side
and that the real enemy is Voldemort. I think the first steps toward
that mutual understanding (which is *not* the same as mutual
affection) will happen in Book 6.

Carol