[HPforGrownups] Digest Number 4552

[Tammy Rizzo]

No: HPFGUIDX 97608

A few days ago, I (Tammy) asked:
> > How do you expect to reconcile literary astronomical 
> > indicators to real world dates when, for five years 
> > now, September first has been a Sunday?  Doesn't that 
> > just scream out that JKR is not using a real world calendar? 

Leaverish replied:
> Sorry, maybe I'm missing something, and this must have been said 
> before, but how can there be a question regarding the real date of the
> happenings in the books? We have explicit info on this. In CoS
> nearly headless Nick has his 500th death day, and we're told he was
> killed in 1492. Ergo, CoS happens in 1992. 

Then Geoff asked:
> I didn't originally raise this point, but perhaps I will now. Where so
> the support for 01/09 having been a Sunday for five years come from?


Now I (Tammy) respond:
Okay, first I'll answer Leaverish, then I'll answer Geoff.  I was not questioning the year in 
which the books are set.  I don't care what year they're set in, myself, and I don't give much 
credence to JKR's dating system, anyway, what with her acknowledged and admitted 
difficulty with numbers and math.  Yeah, NHN's 500th death day was in COS, and his year 
of death was stated as 1492.  But just the year before, he'd said he hadn't eaten in almost 
400 years, throwing some doubt as to when he *DID* die.  I just figure that she's not good at 
numbers, and I forgive her mathmatical Flints, and ignore the inconsistancies they bring up.  
Besides, I don't think she carries her Encyclopaedia Potterica with her to interviews and 
chats, so we can't really trust numbers answers from those, either, since they'd be just off 
the top of her head, right?  Anyway, the dates and years have never really bothered me at 
all -- it's a work of fiction, set in a world NOT QUITE our own.

However, I *CAN* be nitpicky about researching dates -- after all, for my own books, I've 
created a timeline intermeshing calendars for several different societies, on several different 
worlds, each with however many satelites and the phases thereof, so that I know exactly 
what day it is on one world when something happens on another one, as well as which moon 
is where in the sky on what worlds, *and* what the weather's like, and if the characters can 
even see the night sky.  In fact, I've poured so much creative energy into making my 
timeline work smoothly over the dozen worlds and seven centuries that I haven't got 
anything left over for the story, so I am simply **RELISHING** the way that JKR doesn't 
seem to care much about meshing her dates.  If she can get away with it and become richer 
than the Queen of England by doing so, maybe I can loosen my manic grip on that calendar 
collection, and get some actual WRITING done!

This segues into Geoff's question, about support for the 'September Always Starts On 
Sunday' theory, which I'll outline here, in chronological reverse (and yes, I have the books 
right here):

In OOP, Harry attends DADA with Delores on their first day back to classes.  The day is not 
named, however, we can learn the day by using his detentions.  He's supposed to do the 
week's worth of detentions, starting the very next night.  So, the day after DADA with 
Dolores, he starts his detentions.  The day is still not named, so we can only call it day 1 of 
detention, day 2 of the classes, day 3 of term.  The next day, the fourth day of term, third 
day of classes, and second day of detention, is still not named, but is mentioned on page 
270, US hardback edition.  The first two paragraphs deal with that particular day, until he 
falls asleep fully clothed on top of his covers.  The next paragraph begins:  "Thursday 
passed in a haze of tiredness."  Thursday is obviously the third day of detention, now, 
meaning that the day before was Wednesday, and the first day of detention was Tuesday, 
which means that the day he earned detention, the first day of classes, was Monday, which 
means they arrived on Sunday night.  With me so far?

Okay, on to the second-strongest canon.  In GOF, Mad-Eye Moody shows up at the feast, 
and there's a huge storm.  Chapter thirteen starts off with, "The storm had blown itself out by 
the following morning," and the students are discussing their class schedule.  This is also 
the day we meet Draco Malfoy, The Amazing Bouncing Ferret (one of MY favorite scenes!).  
That night, the students are comparing notes about Moody and his DADA classes, and Ron 
bemoans the fact that, "We haven't got him till Thursday!"  The next chapter starts off with, 
"The next two days passed without great incident," giving us three days of classes 
completed in the term, or four days actually at the school.  We know that Thursday is not 
the second day to pass without great incident, because at the end of the first paragraph of 
this chapter (chapter 14, for those who are counting), Neville has returned from detention 
with Snape, and Hermione is teaching him a Scouring Charm to get the frog guts out from 
under his nails.  Then, on page 210, US paperback edition, third paragraph, it starts out 
with, "The Gryffindor fourth years were looking forward to Moody's first lesson so much that 
they arrived early on Thursday lunchtime," thus establishing two full days between Thursday 
and the first day of classes, when Moody turned Malfoy into a ferret.  Thursday, Wednesday 
(full day two), Tuesday (full day one), Monday (ferret day, and first day of classes), which 
means they arrived on Sunday night.

Sadly, the first three books don't give such definite information, though they do each lend 
themselves to an interpretation of classes starting on Monday.  However, even if they didn't, 
the pattern of September starting on the same day two years running is quite specifically set 
between books 4 and 5.  In the real world, September (since it's after February, of course) 
starts on Leap Years two days later than the year before, or one day later in regular years.  
It never starts on the same day from one year to the next.  Anyway, back to the books:

In POA, Malfoy taunts Buckbeak on the first day of classes.  HRH sneak down to visit 
Hagrid at his hut that night, where he'd been drinking, but sobered up enough to yell at them 
for risking the trip and to escort them back to the castle, and thus ends chapter six.  Chapter 
seven begins with, "Malfoy didn't reappear in classes until late on Thursday morning," giving 
us nothing to count, but leaving a sense of some time having passed.

In COS, chapter six details the first day of classes, with Lockhart's disastrous Cornish Pixies 
lesson, and then chapter seven starts off with, "Harry spent a lot of time over the next few 
days dodging out of sight whenever he saw Gilderoy Lockhart," and then gives a definite 
day name in the second paragraph, when, on Friday, Ron's wand shot out of his hand in 
Charms class and hit Professor Flitwick between the eyes, giving him a nasty boil.  Now, 
granted, there's no specific number of days mentioned, but how many can 'the next few 
days' be?  Chapter six must have begun early in the week, for Friday to be after a 'few 
days'.

In SS/PS, the first few days of classes are touched upon but not differentiated, passing in a 
blur, until Friday, when Harry and Ron are finally able to find their way to the Great Hall 
without getting lost.  This gives the sense of some little time between starting classes and 
Friday, though there is no definite number of days given.

Oooh, lookitt me, expounding HP canon almost like an expert!  WHEEE!  Okay, I'll shut up 
now.

***
Tammy
ms-tamany at rcn.com




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