Occlumency was RE: Sirius vs. Snape

[snow15145]

No: HPFGUIDX 99497

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "mnaper2001" <mnaperrone at a...> 
wrote:
> Snow wrote (in #99427):
> > When DD learned about Snape's refusal to further teach Harry, DD 
> > did not pursue it. Could that have been because the lesson that 
> > needed to be taught, was taught? (IMO) Harry was being taught it 
> > just wasn't occlumency. Harry learned exactly what DD wanted him 
> > to know. Harry needed to be put through enough ordeals in an 
> > attempt to teach him restraint and control over his emotions. 
> > <snip> 
> > 
> > I don't believe in the "ever so evil" DD but how about the "ever 
> > so manipulative" DD? The end product was Harry's emotions saving 
> > him from being possessed by Voldemort. Would Harry, during the 
> > attempted possession, have felt enough emotion to endure the pain 
> > if he had not previously had several doses of pain to assure the 
> > strongest emotional result? 
> <snip>
> > This time, after enduring a substantial amount of emotional 
ordeals, 
> > Harry is much stronger and endured the test. 
> 
> 
> Ally:
> 
> That's an interesting theory.  I did suspect occlumency was a set 
up 
> by DD, but I was thinking that he wanted Snape and Harry to see 
each 
> other's memories and learn that they had some things in common.  In 
> my mind, it was building to the two of them working together in the 
> way that DD has emphasized is necessary for success.
> 
> But I think I might like your theory better (although I suppose 
that 
> ours aren't necessarily mutually exclusive).  But what did Harry 
> learn - that his father was less than perfect?  I'm not sure I see 
> the connection between this lesson and his ability to fight off V 
in 
> the end.

Snow again:

The penceive is actually a separate lesson than the occlumency 
lessons which taught Harry how to deal with emotions like humility 
among other things.
The penceive memories themselves were not what was important, but how 
Harry perceived what he had seen. To understand it fully you need to 
look at the first time Harry peeped into a pencieve. DD told Harry 
GOF pg.398 "Curiosity is not a sin
but we should exercise caution 
with our curiosity"  DD then precedes to teach Harry through the 
penceive about Bertha Jorkins: "He put a hex on me, Professor 
Dumbledore, and I was only teasing him, sir, I only said I'd seen him 
kissing Florence
" It is DD's reply that is important here: But why, 
Bertha," said Dumbledore sadly
"Why did you have to follow him in the 
first place?" Again place DD's advice to Harry here: that we should 
exercise caution with our curiosity as if to say you may end up in a 
situation,like Bertha, you don't want to be in or in Harry's case see 
something you shouldn't have seen. Peeping Harry just couldn't resist 
the curiosity of what he felt Snape was hiding in the penceive and it 
backfired on him. Harry didn't get the scoop on Snape but ended up 
feeling sorry for him and having to deal with more emotional 
difficulty because he didn't heed DD's advice about exercising 
caution with curiosity. Harry's always being taught.