Plot in OotP (wand confusion)

[Renee]

No: HPFGUIDX 118346


--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "pippin_999" <foxmoth at q...> 
wrote:
> 
> Nora:
> > 
> > Correct me if I'm wrong, Pippin, because I'm away from my 
> books--but  doesn't Sirius mention that Barty Crouch Sr. sent his 
> own son to  jail, in the conversation in the cave?  And talk about 
> how he didn't  last long, but died?  So, in a sense, we've been 
> set up--what is the  sneaky revelation is that Barty Jr. is still
> alive, 
> and has been  smuggled out.  This comes after The Egg and the 
> Eye, so in a sense, there we've been GIVEN the information we 
> need--we just don't know  what we have.
> > 
> > It's sneaky, yes, but it's also been *explicitly* prepared, so 
that 
>  when the true answer comes to light, we have something to 
> flash back  to, something very very definite which has become 
> fully  comprehensible, and go "Oh..."
> > 
> > Now, if you'd like to cite me where, textually, this is 
explicitly 
> > and clearly done for Wormtail!Lupin, I would love to see it so 
> that  I can be prepared for the ultimate revelation. :)
> 
> Pippin:
> I'm not sure what you mean by "*explicitly* prepared". Sirius 
> never refers to young Barty by name. It's 'Crouch's son' all the 
> way through his account, and young Crouch, like the other 
> people in the Pensieve scene, is never named there either.
> 
> Our  clue to young Barty's name is way back in GOF chapter one, 
> where we learn that the senior Riddles had a grown up son 
> named Tom -- very confusing, since this Tom is the father of the 
> Tom Riddle who will become Lord Voldemort. JKR doesn't 
> explain that explicitly either; you have to work it out, though it 
> helps to remember that Tom Riddle said in CoS that he was 
> named after his father. 
> 
> 
> In the same way, we have Mark Evans, of no importance in our 
> story except to show that unrelated persons can have the same 
> name. And where should he appear but in the first chapter of 
> OOP?


Renee:
I don't recall Sirius using Crouch Jr's first name either, but I 
don't think it matters, because the analogy is skewed. Sons and 
fathers or uncles and nephews do have identical names occasionally; 
certain combinations simply run in certain families. And yes, in a 
series this size with such large numbers of characters it's only 
realistic if a few completely unrelated characters have the same, 
fairly common family name. That JKR admitted Mark wasn't surnamed 
Evans on purpose doesn't really matter here.

In fact, it's irrelevant, because Wormtail is neither a family name 
nor a traditional first name particular to one specific family. It's 
a nickname, a deliberate choice based on a personal trait of the 
character in question (or, in Pettigrews case, on his animagus 
form). Though it isn't entirely impossible that there are two 
Wormtails in the series, pointing at the existence of two Barties 
Crouch is not a valid argument, as nicknames are of an entirely 
different order. 

To make the existence of a Wormtail II plausible, you'll have to 
come up with an argument, preferably canon-based, why this person 
would have exactly the same nickname as Peter Pettigrew the Rat 
Animagus (unless Wormtail is a common surname in Britain, of 
course.) If you think it's Lupin, you have to answer Nora's direct 
question, which I notice you don't do anywhere in your comment. 

Just arguing that Peter couldn't have AK-ed Cedric doesn't work. I 
see no reason why it would be impossible: as someone pointed out 
before it's perfectly possible to carry a baby-sized Voldie in the 
crook of one elbow, and it doesn't take a great deal of dexterity to 
pull out a wand with your opposite hand, if only the wand is in the 
right place to begin with. And why wouldn't it be? It seems only 
logical that Pettigrew would have a wand at hand, under the 
circumstances.

<snip>

Pippin: 
> My educated guess is that there are two Wormtails. But we 
> probably don't have all the clues yet. 

Renee:
My uneducated guess would be that Wormtail II is really Wormtongue, 
magically transported from Middle-earth to the Potterworld. Harry 
simply misunderstood his name or stopped listening after *Worm-*, 
and JKR put him in to be able to pay homage to J.R.R. Tolkien once 
he comes out into the open in all his sneaky glory... 

My educated guess is that Wormtail II is a candidate par excellence 
for Occam's Razor: entities are not to be multiplied beyond 
necessity. 

Renee