bullies? twins, padfoot and prongs

[ginnysthe1]

No: HPFGUIDX 118855


--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "justcarol67" 
<justcarol67 at y...> wrote:
> 
> > Kim now:
> > I think what may be missing in our interpretations is that in 
this 
> > scene James sees Severus in the light of his and Severus's own 
> > personal history together, a history which we can't see from our 
> > reader's POV.  As a possible history, I'll offer this:  After 
they 
> > first met one another, it somehow became apparent to James that 
> > Severus was a pureblood snob.  Severus may be a "shabby-genteel" 
> > pureblood snob (hence the dingy underpants?), but he's a snob 
> > nonetheless.  And pure-blood James doesn't like snobs.  Why this 
is 
> > so, I've no idea, but I think it is so.  (Also, pureblood Sirius 
> > doesn't like snobs either, does he, hence part of the reason for 
his 
> > dislike of his own family?) <snip>
> 
> Carol responds:
> Actually, I don't think snobbery is quite the right word here, since
> Sirius comes across as arrogant and haughty himself, much like his
> cousin Bellatrix in the Pensieve scene. He wants his friend James, 
who
> is arrogant in a different "admire me" sort of way to entertain him.
> Sirius says that the Blacks in general behave like royalty, a point
> that's confirmed by the "Nature's Nobility" book title. Sirius at
> fifteen, despite his rejection of the Dark Arts, still considers
> himself too good or too smart to study (see his rude remark to Remus
> regarding the Transfiguration exam).
> 
> I don't think the "arrogant little berks" are rejecting snobbishness
> per se. They, too, seem to think they're better than everyone else. 
I
> think whatever is between them and Severus is personal, possibly an
> instinctive dislike of a skinny, greasy but talented boy on James's
> part and a projection of his own hated Dark Wizard family onto 
Severus
> by Sirius. Certainly Sirius's dislike of his own family plays a part
> here, but IMO it's not the snobbery he's rejecting. He's a snob
> himself, as indicated by his scornful disregard of the girls who 
think
> he's handsome and his treatment of the other Marauders, even James.
> 
> Carol, who really should stop replying to this thread!

Kim now:
But snobbish has a different meaning from arrogant, so that's why I 
used the word "snob" to refer to Severus, and I think that word is 
the right one to use.  I'd agree that Sirius, and James less so, is 
arrogant and haughty.  But my sense is that Severus is a snob.  He 
may be arrogant and haughty as well, but that wasn't my point.

FWIW, here's a dictionary definition of snobbish:  befitting or 
characteristic of those who are inclined to social exclusiveness and 
who rebuff the advances of people considered inferior. 

Whereas I see arrogant as meaning something slightly different.  
Dictionary says:  having or displaying a sense of overbearing self-
worth or self-importance; marked by or arising from a feeling or 
assumption of one's superiority toward others.

In that sense, a wizard who values his own purebloodedness and wants 
to *separate* himself from non-purebloods is a snob, so that 
description would fit Severus, but not Sirius.  IMO Sirius just 
thinks he's better than *everybody* else, so he is arrogant and 
haughty, but not necessarily a snob as to social class or pure-
bloodedness.  If Sirius were a true snob, he wouldn't even want to 
associate with those he thought were inferior to himself.  So he 
wouldn't be hanging around with a werewolf (Remus) and an apparent 
toady (Peter). 

Kim