Tyranny (WAS Harry learning from Snape)

[dzeytoun]

No: HPFGUIDX 114486


--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Nora Renka" <nrenka at y...> 
wrote:
> 
> --- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Hannah" <hannahmarder at y...> 
> wrote:
> > Hannah now: When has Snape's behaviour resulted in an utter and 
> > absolute disaster? If you mean the occlumency failure, I don't 
> > think it can be entirely blamed on Snape; Harry doesn't try, he 
is 
> > very stupid when he looks in the pensieve, he never even tries to 
> > resume lessons.  
> 
> I ain't Dzeytoun, but I think I can come up with a line of 
reasoning 
> that works here.
> 
> It was stated earlier in another thread, and I do believe this 
> myself, that Snape is a teacher who is feared, not respected.  I 
> don't think that fear and true respect, with regards to a superior, 
> are particularly mutually compatible.
> 
> I suspect the argument Dzeytoun is making, if I unpack it, is 
this:  
> Dumbledore is being unduly lenient in allowing Snape to behave as 
> Snape wishes towards the students, with some restraint, but not a 
> particularly strong amount.  (This point, minus the unduly part, 
has 
> been largely confirmed in JKR interview, when she says that DD 
keeps 
> Snape around in part because the kids need to learn some life 
lessons-
> -that's a rough quote, but I'm fairly sure the gist is there).
> 
> This is, throughout the books, resulted in an escalation and 
> continuation of hostility between Harry and Snape, with some 
> culpability on both sides, but probably putting more of the blame 
on 
> Snape--in part because yes, he is the teacher, and as such is in a 
> superior position of authority, which brings certain amounts of 
> responsibility with it.  And I think it's really pretty settled 
that 
> we don't see any of the other teachers behaving in truly Snape-like 
> ways; ergo, he *is* something of an anomaly at Hogwarts.
> 
> Given this situation, Harry's distrust and fear of Snape is a 
> situation which feeds into the Occlumency mess.  [Side note: I 
really 
> *do* want to know how much DD knew what was going on with that, and 
> his responses to it--that matters quite a bit to getting a more 
> accurate interpretation of what happened and why.]  Now, to jump 
> backwards, IF the hostile situation between Harry and Snape had not 
> been allowed to continue largely unchecked, with no necessitated 
> examination of ideas on either side, THEN we can see the situation 
in 
> book 5 with the lessons being quite a bit different.

I absolutely agree and could not have put it better myself.

> 
> There is the question of balance, here: does DD have the right to 
> force Snape to change his behavior, versus whether DD has the right 
> to allow Snape to continue the exercise of his behavior on his 
> inferiors.  A difficult question.  

I think you are absolutely correct that this is the central moral 
issue.  At what point does respect for freedom of opinion become 
spineless acceptance of abuse?

Dzeytoun